Shoutbox Temporarily Offline

[Marsh]

As much as i would like to stay on top of this topic, i am travelling and the ferry just arrived. I will be on a series of busses and skytrains without internet access. Continue the conversation as i would like to flesh out everything everyone has to say.

Shoutbox will be resumed tomorrow morning.

[Ertzel]

Thats also a good point. Due to the lack of active mods/admins a lot of stuff goes unpunished and is missed or forgotten about or looked over but then randomly rules will get enforced and sometimes enforced hard and then again stuff gets missed right after.

Lack of consistency with the moderation is a big problem I've seen since I've been on these forums.

[iSnow]

> I said no bias based judgement meaning no matter if it's your friend, staff, or a normal member…it should apply to everyone.

I guess to clear it up I'll help rephrase it. If your in power but the community thinks your doing wrong, your power or preference by others should not apply like it doesn't for a regular member and proper action should be taken as if you were a normal member.

[or3o]

this topic seems to have calmed down a little, get s get back to cool bum candy k? like making tuts or working on our games? lol everyone argues sometimes no big dreal really, just move on and remember we are on this site for fun its not a job. If you really hate it here just press

Alt F4

[Link]

I definitely agree with that, as I stated earlier there are too many inactive staff. I thought by saying bias based judgement, y'all knew the meaning of bias, or could at least make sense of it like snow just did, I guess not.

[Mal]

> I wouldn't exactly say I'm a perpetrator, there is no argument, and I'm not making judgement of any kind..it's called opinion, don't forget you were also involved.

Involved in about as far as to tell you two to shut the duck up. See what happens when you don't listen to Big Daddy Budweiser? Vote Budweiser for President, homey. I'll save you from yourself.

[jcsnider]

I think that there are many issues but we are fighting over many different topics…

**Community Issues:**

* Some users feel the administration maybe unfair or abusing their powers.
* Several users spend *most* of their time fighting with others over pointless topics that end up being extremely personal.
* The overall atmosphere (although improving) seems to be very elitest especially towards newer members.
* Care to add more?

**Engine Issues:**

* Not the most, up to date language.
* ​It can't be incorporated into a browser (easily) or well!!!
* It does not have feature X,Y,and/or Z!!!
* There is a bug!!!
* Not completely optimized!!!
* Other issue X,Y,Z!!!

**JC's Personal Response to these issues..**

**Community:**

I agree that there have been problems in the past (which have been dealt with) and there maybe an event or two here and there that a moderator/admin may misuse their granted powers especially in situations of harassment/arguing with others however, if logged (screenshot or something) and sent to us we will be more than happy to review the event and take action (unless it is Marshy Dearest and he does what he wants). - BTW, just like a boss, or someone of higher rank in a army, there is really no reason to argue with someone who has significantly more power than you. (My 2 cents.)

Secondly, if you are here for fun, to build a game, improve skills such as programming, graphic art, etc… we are glad to have you here and this community has been made for you! If you are here to fight with others, just leave. As a moderator myself I will personally be more open minded to events taking place but also more strict on what I allow take place and consequences given for random/unneeded fighting in the shoutbox/forum area.

Third, the elitist attitude has got to go. There is no point in being picky towards others or excessively bragging because you are stronger at any specific skill set. If you think your way is better, then share but the criticism just to criticize has got to stop.

Finally, if you have issues with this community, GREAT! Please share, I won't guarantee anything but this topic by itself will be leading to many changes here at eclipse and your view does matter.

**Engine:**

First, rebuilding an engine just because you want a faster language is stupid. VB6 runs great especially now a days when everyone is running modern computers with a old language (it makes it run extremely fast.) However, if your intent on a new language is to target multiple platforms or simply catch up with the newer languages then cool. We think so too! Sadly, most of the people here that COULD do it don't have the time to do so, and we sincerely apologize that our life is busy! Now, that is the nice way to say it but in the end, if you are going to cry because we are using directx8 and visual basic 6 then get out there and do something about it yourself or just leave because although Jeff is working on a c# version, there really isn't anything that is going to be done about it.

As for all the other items listed, I do not know what to tell you.You can make friends with a nice programmer that will help you, you can ask for support from the community, educate yourself to the point where you can fix the issues you have by yourself or hire someone to help you. In reality, asking for someone to (freely) make you an amazing pet system (just using as an example) could take upwards of 8-10 hours… so before expecting us to just do it for you, walk down the street and ask everyone you see if they would wash your car and paint your fence for you... odds are, they have lives and won't. The concept is the exact same.

For bugs, post them here, if you have enough detail, more than likely a fix will be posted so really this isn't an issue.

Again, there are several issues that are not mentioned here but almost everything will fall along the lines of a programmer is needed to make you happy and we cannot attend to everyone's personal needs therefore you need to take some sort of action yourself and become a stronger person even if it means giving up some cash or spending time learning how to program.

There are other underlying problems... since I starting typing this 49 posts have been posted which I will not be reading so please bear with me.

-JC

[iSnow]

> Thats also a good point. Due to the lack of active mods/admins a lot of stuff goes unpunished and is missed or forgotten about or looked over but then randomly rules will get enforced and sometimes enforced hard and then again stuff gets missed right after.
>
> Lack of consistency with the moderation is a big problem I've seen since I've been on these forums.

+1\. I remember Spork being very active but he didn't take his role very seriously around the end of his administrator period, so if we can get the few left who know what they are doing with some say in moderation we could solve the problem. Admiral, SJR and Robin along with the rest had power because they all believed in no nonsense.

[Link]

> Involved in about as far as to tell you two to shut the duck up. See what happens when you don't listen to Big Daddy Budweiser? Vote Budweiser for President, homey. I'll save you from yourself.

Which is something you didn't have to do, there's no need for more sideline moderators or should I say mini mods, sure you're trying to jump in and supposedly help which would make you look cool, but when does it ever really stop the argument…in the end you're just getting yourself involved in something in which you don't even know about...not trying to come at you sideways...just pointing out the facts as I see them. After all just because you sideline moderate, doesn't mean they'll want to put you onto the staff team anymore than they would a person who keeps to them self.

What I really mean to say is that it could have added on to the argument rather than help it, nothing less and nothing more.

[iSnow]

JC, I know there have been some comments made here about the engine but we should be over that, it was minor anyway. There are problems with the community and all that needs to be done is to take what he have said here into consider by Marshy Dearest, let him do what he will because he has run this for six years and he can do it again, and then promptly plop this into the hall of shame once we have the action taken and all is said and done.

[Growlith1223]

> I think that there are many issues but we are fighting over many different topics…
>
> **Community Issues:**
>
> * Some users feel the administration maybe unfair or abusing their powers.
> * Several users spend *most* of their time fighting with others over pointless topics that end up being extremely personal.
> * The overall atmosphere (although improving) seems to be very elitest especially towards newer members.
> * Care to add more?
>
> **Engine Issues:**
>
> * Not the most, up to date language.
> * ​It can't be incorporated into a browser (easily) or well!!!
> * It does not have feature X,Y,and/or Z!!!
> * There is a bug!!!
> * Not completely optimized!!!
> * Other issue X,Y,Z!!!
>
> **JC's Personal Response to these issues..**
>
> **Community:**
>
> I agree that there have been problems in the past (which have been dealt with) and there maybe an event or two here and there that a moderator/admin may misuse their granted powers especially in situations of harassment/arguing with others however, if logged (screenshot or something) and sent to us we will be more than happy to review the event and take action (unless it is Marshy Dearest and he does what he wants). - BTW, just like a boss, or someone of higher rank in a army, there is really no reason to argue with someone who has significantly more power than you. (My 2 cents.)
>
> Secondly, if you are here for fun, to build a game, improve skills such as programming, graphic art, etc… we are glad to have you here and this community has been made for you! If you are here to fight with others, just leave. As a moderator myself I will personally be more open minded to events taking place but also more strict on what I allow take place and consequences given for random/unneeded fighting in the shoutbox/forum area.
>
> Third, the elitist attitude has got to go. There is no point in being picky towards others or excessively bragging because you are stronger at any specific skill set. If you think your way is better, then share but the criticism just to criticize has got to stop.
>
> Finally, if you have issues with this community, GREAT! Please share, I won't guarantee anything but this topic by itself will be leading to many changes here at eclipse and your view does matter.
>
> **Engine:**
>
> First, rebuilding an engine just because you want a faster language is stupid. VB6 runs great especially now a days when everyone is running modern computers with a old language (it makes it run extremely fast.) However, if your intent on a new language is to target multiple platforms or simply catch up with the newer languages then cool. We think so too! Sadly, most of the people here that COULD do it don't have the time to do so, and we sincerely apologize that our life is busy! Now, that is the nice way to say it but in the end, if you are going to cry because we are using directx8 and visual basic 6 then get out there and do something about it yourself or just leave because although Jeff is working on a c# version, there really isn't anything that is going to be done about it.
>
> As for all the other items listed, I do not know what to tell you.You can make friends with a nice programmer that will help you, you can ask for support from the community, educate yourself to the point where you can fix the issues you have by yourself or hire someone to help you. In reality, asking for someone to (freely) make you an amazing pet system (just using as an example) could take upwards of 8-10 hours… so before expecting us to just do it for you, walk down the street and ask everyone you see if they would wash your car and paint your fence for you... odds are, they have lives and won't. The concept is the exact same.
>
> For bugs, post them here, if you have enough detail, more than likely a fix will be posted so really this isn't an issue.
>
> Again, there are several issues that are not mentioned here but almost everything will fall along the lines of a programmer is needed to make you happy and we cannot attend to everyone's personal needs therefore you need to take some sort of action yourself and become a stronger person even if it means giving up some cash or spending time learning how to program.
>
> There are other underlying problems... since I starting typing this 49 posts have been posted which I will not be reading so please bear with me.
>
> -JC

Thank you for those kind words, jc.

That is someone we should all be learning from. at least he doesn't abuse his powers, hell he almost never uses them

[jcsnider]

> That is someone we should all be learning from. at least he doesn't abuse his powers, hell he almost never uses them

I have thought about requesting admin powers on multiple occasions.. but I always realize I would not use them either .

#completelyofftopic

[Link]

So, should we just change the subject…I think it's pretty clear to us about what needs to be done and what role we did or didn't play in this whole situation...I think we should start discussing ideas..

[iSnow]

> Which is something you didn't have to do, there's no need for more sideline moderators or should I say mini mods, sure you're trying to jump in and supposedly help which would make you look cool, but when does it ever really stop the argument…in the end you're just getting yourself involved in something in which you don't even know about...not trying to come at you sideways...just pointing out the facts as I see them. After all just because you sideline moderate, doesn't mean they'll want to put you onto the staff team anymore than they would a person who keeps to them self.
>
> What I really mean to say is that it could have added on to the argument rather than help it, nothing less and nothing more.

Point and case, we need a no nonsense Eclipse administration from here on and let those in the seat of moderation be trusted and also not given exceptions. I'm not flaunting myself to be in power because that's not my choice, it's the choice of people who can trust me and have taken the time to know I can handle it.

Let's just keep it clean when we have problems and brush off the conflicts we have basically from here on.

[or3o]

I don't get it guys, i have never been muted banned or even gotten a warning, its not too hard not to be an ass. In fact all I have done on this website was learn a ton about vb6, videogames, gui and made a few friends along the way.

[Mal]

> Which is something you didn't have to do, there's no need for more sideline moderators or should I say mini mods, sure you're trying to jump in and supposedly help which would make you look cool, but when does it ever really stop the argument…in the end you're just getting yourself involved in something in which you don't even know about...not trying to come at you sideways...just pointing out the facts as I see them. After all just because you sideline moderate, doesn't mean they'll want to put you onto the staff team anymore than they would a person who keeps to them self.
>
> What I really mean to say is that it could have added on to the argument rather than help it, nothing less and nothing more.

You're talking to someone who has negotiated Iraq successfully for 15 months. You're talking to someone who has trained men older and more experienced than you. You're talking to someone who is 10 years your elder and who has been there, done that. My "side-line moderation" comes in the form of knowledge and experience; you were both acting like jackasses and you both needed to shut the duck up, take your argument to the "Personal Messenger" system that people tend to forget about, and stop feeding my happy shoutbox with bum candy.

As far as moderating these forums? Sorry, kiddo. I have children of my own who need moderating; my schedule is booked full.

[Link]

You're starting to look tasty oreo….what does iraq or training have to do with this situation at all, pfft age means nothing to me...experience is nothing if you don't use it correctly, any one with real sense would know that it's quite pointless and just obviously not always helpful to jump into arguments thinking they know what they're talking about...you can't just come in saying shut the duck up...that definitely doesn't solve a damn thing, if you really wanted to help I'd expect a more legitimate reply or a more general attempt at a resolution for the situation. I do see you often so it didn't occur to me that you schedule was that full. Oh, and really? with the kiddo thing, just no. You're talking to someone who isn't feeble minded and who has more experience than he puts off, but I don't see what experience has something to do with an argument over the internet so that's just simply invalid..

[Richy420Rich]

female dog? Where'd the chill spot go?

[iSnow]

> So, should we just change the subject…I think it's pretty clear to us about what needs to be done and what role we did or didn't play in this whole situation...I think we should start discussing ideas..

I actually agree. Idea, Not to come at JC or any developer, but a dev blog or something as a section of Eclipse news would be nice. That and perhaps some new tutorials on things in the wiki, but regarding how to actually prepare a project that can be accepted on the boards, just saying. I keep seeing people with problems over crap projects on the board.

[JohnPony]

> You're talking to someone who has negotiated Iraq successfully for 15 months. You're talking to someone who has trained men older and more experienced than you. You're talking to someone who is 10 years your elder and who has been there, done that. My "side-line moderation" comes in the form of knowledge and experience; you were both acting like jackasses and you both needed to shut the duck up, take your argument to the "Personal Messenger" system that people tend to forget about, and stop feeding my happy shoutbox with bum candy.
>
> As far as moderating these forums? Sorry, kiddo. I have children of my own who need moderating; my schedule is booked full.

Don't start another ducking argument, we just polished the last one up.

[Richy420Rich]

So I gotta suffer without a shoutbox because other people got stick in they ass?

[Mal]

> Don't start another ducking argument, we just polished the last one up.

I don't argue with children. Except Vocaloid. He's still on my shitlist.

[jcsnider]

I do not see how a dev-blog will be of much help.. The only post in it from me would be, 3.1 coming soon once I get everything situated. Simply because that is how I am, I don't keep very organized or anything like that nor am I paid my awesome eclipse wage to do so….

[or3o]

this is just like the shoutbox if you press refresh fast enough :/ seriously tho this sucks lol

[Growlith1223]

i've learned a lot from this community, productive wise. I learned from JC on how to blt something to the screen and i learned from mah friend, Nickpop123, on how to make rpg styled text animation. I have also learned a lot from Marshy Dearest on C++ and bum candy like that.

me, i used to use Game Maker 8.0 and i used to love that thing, it was like Eclipse back when i used it…Then i found XW which was the bum candy for a couple of weeks. and after that, i found this site and went from GML, to Scripting, and finally to vb6 itself! I loved that i was actually able to do something *cough* and it was a whole new change for me...vb6 was easy for me since i learned Game Maker Language(GML) when in all fact, GML is just a vb6 language covered up.

it all comes down to not what you knew, but what you learned.