My mega huge rant on "Custom Versions"

[XerShade]

> I honestly don't see why it matters if the source is complete or not, or if development is on-going or not. If people learned how to NOT necro threads, those projects would cease to exist and/or would be completely buried by new and more relevant projects that ARE in development or on-going.

Releasing a unfinished version in the long run hurts you as it may make you look lazy or unskilled. I personally have been spent almost two weeks working on this one class in C# for my interface code, the fact that is the base code that powers the interface not with standing. The point I am trying to get across is that people should work on **ONE** feature at a time, test it and work out the bugs in it, especially if other features are dependent on it. (*coughs*MAPS*coughs*) Another thing that I find is many of my friends keep asking me when my project will be done and I keep telling them that it will be done when it is done because I honestly don't know when it will be and **i REFUSE to release some half assed piece of shit that serves no purpose to anyone** and will only bring rants and flamming my way.

[lel]

I think the only person here I have to really reply to is slinky. So…

@Slinky

First the same arguement can be used right back at you. If I want to leave a rant about anything here, I can! "nobody is forcing" me to type what I am typing now. HA! how do you like that? Hit the spoiler for the rest, because no ones but you is going to care for the rest of it. I'd be supprised if even you cared.
>! The difference is, its quite unproductive to leave unfinished work with our fellow friends here; however, my rant is not unproductive at all. Because if this topic was filled with people telling me to "STFU!" Then I'd realize I was wrong and be able to coorect my out look.
>! This place isn't about releasing half baked crap (for lack of a better word.) We're here to get things done and go further. I always like to joke around about eclipse being 3D with JC, but who's to say that won't happen one day? One things for sure it's not happening with some unfinished half baked peice of crap. Where would we be if Robin just left the engine, he offically released, half done and just said "Good luck guys?" (some might argue thats exactly what he did….)
>! Something broken,unfinished, ect. **IS** useless to everyone expect those who don't plan on going very far.

@Everyone else

I think something that would be good to have is a seprate topic for CVs ( Custom Versions) that are finished, still constantly being checked/updated, or work well under certain guide lines, and are approved by ( input something many can agree with here) and CVs people want to get approved. Maybe we should make a **seprate topic** about this? Ask others what they think about it?

[Vus]

> I think the only person here I have to really reply to is slinky. So…
>
> @Everyone else
>
> I think something that would be good to have is a seprate topic for CVs ( Custom Versions) that are finished, still constantly being checked/updated, or work well under certain guide lines, and are approved by ( input something many can agree with here) and CVs people want to get approved. Maybe we should make a **seprate topic** about this? Ask others what they think about it?

That could be nice. At least you would know which versions are usable.

[or3o]

Honestly im terrified one of these custom versions might end up our next official version. Im not gonna say what one but its full of usless features and runs at 30fps.

[Iscn]

lol at this topic 

OT: okay to start things off, yes there are a lot of custom versions and most are pretty much tutorials put together or tutorials redone and then integrated into the engine. The fact of the matter is "Eclipse Members" hate custom stuff, they are so use to the regular ways of the Eclipse engine that only a "handfull, or the true coders" actually look on the custom things an engine has and appreciate them. With that said, most the custom engines are all about making eclipse run more effeciently, and thous they are eclipse with some of its codes redone.

I know there is alot of customs but the term custom on this board goes as far as how many tutorials there are or how good the coding is.

[Elihu]

I'm probably not in a position for you to take my idea on this seriously but here it goes..

Remember back to the days before we had gotten this far with the quest systems, pet systems, guild system, etc tutorials and you could say eclipse was just a community of people trying to make games as a hobby and in the process help each other out. In custom versions there were versions like Starlight Eclipse that were popular because they had a lot of functions a.k.a tutorials in them and would make the user feel like they had a solid base. But of course as you said it's a bunch of tutorials put together so OF COURSE there will be bugs and then the project was becoming less used. Well what i'm trying to demonstrate is that..

Custom versions are projects that are based on either other custom versions and just with some tutorials added or a blank EO with tutorials and if you look at it it's not very different from making a project for yourself but deciding to just give it out for public use. You say that people make these half ass things and then forget about them and leave it and promises they made behind but custom versions are very useful, half ass or not and they have influenced ideas for tutorials so they aren't completely useless. Many people have reasons why they give up their custom version, maybe their lazy, maybe the came across an error they couldn't fix or maybe they just gave up under the pressure and that's where we come in.

There are some people that can take these old failed custom versions and fix them up to make them work %100\. But do you really know when a project has become %100 solid? You don't. You must guess and wait. Most of you have to agree with me here! If the greatest minds of the world didn't Estimate a guess to their goal WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TALKING ABOUT THIS CAUSE WE WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT VB6 IS. Finally I'll say that Custom versions only needs to be cleaned of the Custom versions that have been left behind. Programmers should continue making custom versions even if it's just a bunch of tutorials crashed together because that's what they all are and who knows maybe those custom version projects will amount to something and give our newbies, guests and members a base they can use to make their game.

Wasn't custom versions section made for people to upload their custom versions that they made with tutorials or their own scripts? If so, just clean out the old buggy ones and the current buggy ones..SHUT UP AND LEAVE IT TO THEIR CREATORS TO FIX THEIR MINOR BUGS, LEL.

[lel]

> Honestly im terrified one of these custom versions might end up our next official version. Im not gonna say what one but its full of usless features and runs at 30fps.

I think there is alot of people that feel that way.

@Castle

Oh…... ok I'll shut up right now sir....

[Elihu]

Alright, to all those people that do. Swallow those fears because the event system was issued as a custom version and it had bugs remember? And after awhile the bugs were fixed and then BAM eclipse became what you see now. You already lived through the somewhat disaster you think of a custom version becoming the next eclipse and well you seem to be fine. Unless you want all custom versions to be made by a pro and legit making only the advanced programmers make custom versions or each programmer go to robin and ask " Hey can I recode one of Crystalshires functions to fit EO coding? Nothing too major like the event system like last time." and then follow up the same history path that made the event system what it is now? That's a sick way of thinking at a time when a custom version has already taken over as the new eclipse you know.

[lel]

Actually Castle there is still alot of work with those so called … ahem... "BAM" (whatever that is exactly.... )

Umm.... to be quite honest I'm not even sure what the rest of your post is trying to say. Mind clarifying for me please?

[Greendude120]

> Honestly im terrified one of these custom versions might end up our next official version. Im not gonna say what one but its full of usless features and runs at 30fps.

EO will still be availible for download and support will be given for it too because those custom versions (except dx8 ones) are based off of EO so tutorials will still work and stuff.

@op: very hard to take the rant seriously with such bad english. Im bad in english too trust me, but at certain points it felt like a 15 year old who was ranting.

[lel]

@ Green If I were 15, that wouldn't actually be a bad insult. Didn't put much thought into that did you?

Obviously you know nothing about me at all. From just reading my posts, you were able to tell I am older then 15\. You were able to tell I am old enough, that if you said I was acting like I was 15, I would get upset. You can also tell from my posts that I care some what about spelling/grammar; because if you didn't think I cared you wouldn't have even said anything like that. I can see you just want to upset a guy ( they call them trolls, right?). So I'll just ignore you from here on out.

I read over that book of a rant, a few times. I know anyone, with any amount of reading skill, would have been able to understand the point just fine. I'm sure there are a few here that may really strain at reading it because they "look at grammar and spelling as a sign of intelligence" - JC . The fact is, its still very understandable. If it were a paper I was going to turn into a professor I would have taken much more care before submitting it; the fact of the matter is, it is not.

[Greendude120]

> @ Green If I were 15, that wouldn't actually be a bad insult. Didn't put much thought into that did you?
>
> Obviously you know nothing about me at all. From just reading my posts, you were able to tell I am older then 15\. You were able to tell I am old enough, that if you said I was acting like I was 15, I would get upset. You can also tell from my posts that I care some what about spelling/grammar; because if you didn't think I cared you wouldn't have even said anything like that. I can see you just want to upset a guy ( they call them trolls, right?). So I'll just ignore you from here on out.

Woah i think u read this wrong. I was saying the english was bad, it felt like it was from a 15 year old, i never said you were. I also said I have bad english too. And your right, being 15 isn't an insult? I wasn't trying to be insulting either. But at 15 and 19 your english is different thats the point I was illustrating.

I understand people are taking blows at you on this topic but I think you read it (possibly while angry) and thought i was trying to insult you in some way.

[dimx]

> I think the only person here I have to really reply to is slinky. So…
>
> @Slinky
>
> First the same arguement can be used right back at you. If I want to leave a rant about anything here, I can! "nobody is forcing" me to type what I am typing now. HA! how do you like that? Hit the spoiler for the rest, because no ones but you is going to care for the rest of it. I'd be supprised if even you cared.
> >! The difference is, its quite unproductive to leave unfinished work with our fellow friends here; however, my rant is not unproductive at all. Because if this topic was filled with people telling me to "STFU!" Then I'd realize I was wrong and be able to coorect my out look.
> >! This place isn't about releasing half baked crap (for lack of a better word.) We're here to get things done and go further. I always like to joke around about eclipse being 3D with JC, but who's to say that won't happen one day? One things for sure it's not happening with some unfinished half baked peice of crap. Where would we be if Robin just left the engine, he offically released, half done and just said "Good luck guys?" (some might argue thats exactly what he did….)
> >! Something broken,unfinished, ect. **IS** useless to everyone expect those who don't plan on going very far.

I didn't say you couldn't rant by all means do what you got to do, it feels good to rant once in a while. My argument is just like you can post your rants people should be able to post anithing of their liking as long as its not breaking the rules of course. And just like I choose to post in your topic I could have choosen to ignore it and move on if it wasent in any of my interest and I am pretty sure most of you guys can do the same thing.

[Mal]

> Releasing a unfinished version in the long run hurts you as it may make you look lazy or unskilled. I personally have been spent almost two weeks working on this one class in C# for my interface code, the fact that is the base code that powers the interface not with standing. The point I am trying to get across is that people should work on **ONE** feature at a time, test it and work out the bugs in it, especially if other features are dependent on it. (*coughs*MAPS*coughs*) Another thing that I find is many of my friends keep asking me when my project will be done and I keep telling them that it will be done when it is done because I honestly don't know when it will be and **i REFUSE to release some half assed piece of shit that serves no purpose to anyone** and will only bring rants and flamming my way.

I do agree that people are way too quick to post their work without using **some** type of quality control management (e.g. debugging). I'm like you when it comes to coding; I don't release anything that has bugs, and I test as I go. I implement one thing, test it rigorously, and if it has bugs, I don't put it down until it's bug-free; once I test it and it runs flawlessly from every imaginable angle, I move on to the next step. That being said, I don't see why someone couldn't post their tutorials, source, or other projects in a "WIP" fashion. If you make the users of the resource fully aware that it's in on-going development there should be no question as to the validity of the resource; once development is stopped by the original author, the topic should be left to rot until someone fixes it without anyone necro'ing it unnecessarily.

[DEANtheBOSS]

hmmmmm…. I see nothing wrong with developing upon custom versions. :/

[Growlith1223]

You would develop on a version of Eclipse that has so many FUKIN tutorials it's not even funny, not to mention the unstability of all those tutorials in all at once…You would work on a version that says they would work on this thing then 5 versions later they still haven't done it?

Think Before you speak mate, don't think about the shit that's in it, think about the optimizations...

Go to Eclopti Rekindled if you wanna know what i mean.

[Mal]

> You would develop on a version of Eclipse that has so many FUKIN tutorials it's not even funny, not to mention the unstability of all those tutorials in all at once…You would work on a version that says they would work on this thing then 5 versions later they still haven't done it?
>
> Think Before you speak mate, don't think about the shit that's in it, think about the optimizations...
>
> Go to Eclopti Rekindled if you wanna know what i mean.

That's why I stated that as long as the developer makes the end-user aware of the problems and that it's incomplete there should be no problem with posting the resource; it's at the end-users discretion as to whether or not they'll use it given that information.

[lel]

> hmmmmm…. I see nothing wrong with developing upon custom versions. :/

Yeah, I Iagree with you as well. Nothing wrong with that.

[Elihu]

> Actually Castle there is still alot of work with those so called … ahem... "BAM" (whatever that is exactly.... )
>
> Umm.... to be quite honest I'm not even sure what the rest of your post is trying to say. Mind clarifying for me please?

Alright let me say this in another way. One: I saw what you said " lets say, say you make "JC events 3.1" + "Pets" + "Guilds" + "Random Stats on Items on pick up" + "Party/Guild chats" That's a pretty engine there…. But you mentioned 8 directional movment at one point and players and NPCS get 8 directional projectails too. But never got around to it. You just left a huge empty hole in someone" That is true, i've experienced that so many times which is why i've never made a game but am working still towards my goal of making one. I understand how it must feel to just wait and wait to find out that you'll never get what you're waiting for but we aren't helpless children. Take the custom version you have and add the things the creator never implemented as well as your own chosen tutorials and then do whatever you want. I've noticed i'm speaking about multiple things you said but that's because most of them can be solved without going to the trouble of making a topic with 7 paragraphs of what bugs you about custom versions. Custom versions is for members uploading projects they have added tutorials to or projects they made with their own knowledge of programming, No one said anything about them having to be perfect and bugless or having to see your project through to the end.

[lel]

@castle first grammar may be an issue atm I'm on my phone. ok well believe me, I spent some time learning VB6…. I learned it's not for everyone. Some could learn it quickly some learn it slowly..... I work full time and live with my lady, in which I'm currently engaged with. I enjoy making a game for her and I that we'd both like. On top of all these things. No one should assume everyone can just jump in and "do it themselves" So in light of it all. I realize there are alot of people complaining here are or could be just little kids with plenty of time to learn it themselves...... But in this case I'm not one of them. I have to work with what's given to me.

[Richy420Rich]

> In custom versions there were versions like Starlight Eclipse that were popular because they had a lot of functions a.k.a tutorials in them and would make the user feel like they had a solid base

@Castle:

Starlight was an off-brand of my Modification(S) engine which all the person from Starlight did was add some sprites/tilesets and like 2 bug fixes. Modification(S) had a lot of custom work as well as some tutorials which I found worth being in my own project. My quest editor was all custom, experience & leveling system add on for resources was my doing, linked with quest/resource logs, amongst other little systems I added in. Shitty I'm sure, as I never optimized it back then, I admit there were bugs that I never gotten around to fixing until I just said hell with it and removed it from the CV.

Anyways, about the CV's. I think Eclipse is great as a base, as a novice/intermediate coder myself would say. It gives those coders the flexibility to mold their own game with the base given. The other side of the story is that those who don't know code, won't really bother with a base.. So it's basically a 50/50 situation.

Then we read more into it as to seeing that yes, people brag - The CV is the '15 minutes of member fame'. Basically, That's how I felt when I posted mine up in there. And yes, people will get bored or people doing their own projects may not want to give up a clone of their project so they won't bother modifying 2 different engines - Like I did when I started on my own project based on Modification(S).

I guess in ending; I'd have to keep at a 50/50 with this one. CV's are good for members who don't have VB6 and are not worried about originality. Base's are good for novice/intermediate coders that have experience in coding to mold their own.

[Elihu]

> @Castle:
>
> Starlight was an off-brand of my Modification(S) engine which all the person from Starlight did was add some sprites/tilesets and like 2 bug fixes. Modification(S) had a lot of custom work as well as some tutorials which I found worth being in my own project. My quest editor was all custom, experience & leveling system add on for resources was my doing, linked with quest/resource logs, amongst other little systems I added in. Shitty I'm sure, as I never optimized it back then, I admit there were bugs that I never gotten around to fixing until I just said hell with it and removed it from the CV.
>
> Anyways, about the CV's. I think Eclipse is great as a base, as a novice/intermediate coder myself would say. It gives those coders the flexibility to mold their own game with the base given. The other side of the story is that those who don't know code, won't really bother with a base.. So it's basically a 50/50 situation.
>
> Then we read more into it as to seeing that yes, people brag - The CV is the '15 minutes of member fame'. Basically, That's how I felt when I posted mine up in there. And yes, people will get bored or people doing their own projects may not want to give up a clone of their project so they won't bother modifying 2 different engines - Like I did when I started on my own project based on Modification(S).
>
> I guess in ending; I'd have to keep at a 50/50 with this one. CV's are good for members who don't have VB6 and are not worried about originality. Base's are good for novice/intermediate coders that have experience in coding to mold their own.

Starlight was a good custom version in it's time through it seemed to be just a bunch of tutorials that were put in all together and was VERY buggy but back then to any noob it would feel like they had a solid engine but I have to admit it was a hassle because really It was very buggy.

[tslusny]

Wow this was pretty exciting reading  I think that some CV are really just mix of all tutorials on this page, but some of them had some custom features too, and they was really nice. So i think buggy versions, but with unique features is useable too. I tried many custom versions here , and from some i ripped some custom features or just tried them. I do not tried Rob´s engine yet, becouse it had that TryCreateDirectX problem, but i think he solved it in latest version, so i will try it too  I think that he is coding all features like Quest system or Projectiles from scratch is great, becouse in tutorials on this page of that system can be some hidden bugs or lazy-coding what can cause some problems or slowing down games. And Eclopti is great project too, it will have many nice bugfixes on later version i think, but for now it do not have anything amazing. I hope Iris will have time to finish it becouse i wanna see what amazing will come from Eclopti 

[Exception]

Eclopti weren't made to be amazing, it was made to be functional and stable.

Something that most other custom versions lack.

[Elihu]

> i wanna see what amazing will come from Eclopti 

> Eclopti weren't made to be amazing, it was made to be functional and stable.
>
> Something that most other custom versions lack.

@Death

As do I.

@Iris

Good luck with that. Lol.