Eclipse Origins.Net

[Lavos]

@Robin:

> @Lavos:
>
> > On my opinion I don't think that any language is better then the other. It all depends on what you have the most experience with. For example if a person grew up using linux other then windows then he would say the linux is better. If a person with a good skill and experienced python programming other then java then he would python is better. As for myself I perfer vb6 over vb.net because I grew into being used to using it so much.
>
> You're obviously not a programmer, then. Using a language just because you're used to it isn't a valid reason to not learn a new one. It's like me refusing to learn Dutch because I grew up speaking English.
>
> Hell, with your philosophy the human race would never progress and would just do what they've always done without improving.

It's indeed what you said is true, but not precisely what you said about me. There are  people who would want to learn something only when they need to. It's like saying if I wanted to become a programmer then I go out learning about it.

[azure]

Lavos: Just to interject, as any programmer will tell you (Robin said this in another thread) once you truly know programming theory and have one language down moving to a new one is fairly simple. I mean I've been learning python and already I see the parallels between it and vb.

Rather than the newer programmers arguing over how great .net is, maybe they should actually try another language. They might find out how wrong they really are.

As for the philosophy argument; need comes from multiple angles. Necessity might be the mother of invention, but desire is the mother of progress.

[jcsnider]

@Miguu: Projects programmed in Vb.Net 2008 and 2010 express editions can be upgraded in a click of a button with little to no bugs. When form designing and such the 2010 version is significantly slower than 2008 or has been in my experiences, the program you generate from it however has the same speed. Therefore, I am programming this with 2008 and not 2010 but I will make sure it can be upgraded without error before I release for those who wish to use 2010 to source edit this if they wish.

[Godlord]

@Lavos:

> On my opinion I don't think that any language is better then the other. It all depends on what you have the most experience with. For example if a person grew up using linux other then windows then he would say the linux is better. If a person with a good skill and experienced python programming other then java then he would python is better. As for myself I perfer vb6 over vb.net because I grew into being used to using it so much.

The difference between Assembly and C is generally abstraction. The difference between C and C++ is generally more abstraction (and shittier abstraction because the C++ standard has been flawed for decades). The difference between C++ and C#.net/VB.net/C++.net (it doesn't matter which language since they are equally slow) is generally more abstraction. The more abstraction you add to something, the less details there are, the less you can do to optimise it, and no, the compiler you use isn't able to optimise everything properly, that's a myth. Now if you read manuals like [this](http://www.agner.org/optimize/microarchitecture.pdf). You will realise why that is bad.

Regards,
  Stephan.

[jcsnider]

Item editor has been made is seems to be working great :D.

[Kool_dude4ever]

@jcsnider:

> Item editor has been made is seems to be working great :D.

nice, i cannot wait until it's  finished! i can finally code vb.net again :D

[mrmiguu]

@Robin:

> @Miguu:
>
> > I don't think .NET is too bad for a conversion. But, why not C#? It's almost identical yet made to run faster (with the intent of combining VB6 with C++).
>
> lolwut. What are you basing this on?

TBH, I'm not sure anymore. Since they're both OOP, there's little sense in using either of them.

[Helladen]

@Miguu:

> @Robin:
>
> > @Miguu:
> >
> > > I don't think .NET is too bad for a conversion. But, why not C#? It's almost identical yet made to run faster (with the intent of combining VB6 with C++).
> >
> > lolwut. What are you basing this on?
>
> TBH, I'm not sure anymore. Since they're both OOP, there's little sense in using either of them.

I don't know much about .NET or Visual Basic 6, but I agree that C# is better. The syntax is nicer in my opinion. That's all my evidence, but you can convert it to C# instantly, so it does not matter…

[AeroEBrown]

I don't mean to hate, or condone this.

1\. Good job, actually. (I mean it.)
2\. I would recommend you base it toward VB.NET 2010, as there will be less issues with upgrading it for the next VB.NET generation.
3\. Don't let Stephan's words, get you down. VB.NET can be a semi-powerful language. (If done right, and Stephan I am not trying to attack you, from what I have seen you have made MANY valid points. :) )
4\. Good luck, and god speed.
5\. Can we quit arguing about .NET versus C++ versus C versus Assembly. I'll admit, .NET is flawed, and I listed them here in order of power. (Low to high, LMAO)

Also, this has given me inspiration to do a C++ edit of Eclipse. (Maybe complete what Marsh started, or restart it. Whatever it takes.)

Just my $0.01.

Thanks,
Aero/EBrown

[jcsnider]

@Aero/EBrown:

> I don't mean to hate, or condone this.
>
> 1\. Good job, actually. (I mean it.)
> 2\. I would recommend you base it toward VB.NET 2010, as there will be less issues with upgrading it for the next VB.NET generation.
> 3\. Don't let Stephan's words, get you down. VB.NET can be a semi-powerful language. (If done right, and Stephan I am not trying to attack you, from what I have seen you have made MANY valid points. :) )
> 4\. Good luck, and god speed.
> 5\. Can we quit arguing about .NET versus C++ versus C versus Assembly. I'll admit, .NET is flawed, and I listed them here in order of power. (Low to high, LMAO)
>
> Also, this has given me inspiration to do a C++ edit of Eclipse. (Maybe complete what Marsh started, or restart it. Whatever it takes.)
>
> Just my $0.01.
>
> Thanks,
> Aero/EBrown

1\. Thanks :D
2\. I like 2008 but before I release I will upgrade it for everyone :D
3\. 1/2 of it is going right through one ear and out the other mainly because he is above me. But I am not stopping now.
4\. Thanks, again.
5\. I agree, arguing here isn't changing anything.

and 6\. I wish you luck with your edit if you decide to make it :D

[AeroEBrown]

@jcsnider:

> @Aero/EBrown:
>
> > I don't mean to hate, or condone this.
> >
> > 1\. Good job, actually. (I mean it.)
> > 2\. I would recommend you base it toward VB.NET 2010, as there will be less issues with upgrading it for the next VB.NET generation.
> > 3\. Don't let Stephan's words, get you down. VB.NET can be a semi-powerful language. (If done right, and Stephan I am not trying to attack you, from what I have seen you have made MANY valid points. :) )
> > 4\. Good luck, and god speed.
> > 5\. Can we quit arguing about .NET versus C++ versus C versus Assembly. I'll admit, .NET is flawed, and I listed them here in order of power. (Low to high, LMAO)
> >
> > Also, this has given me inspiration to do a C++ edit of Eclipse. (Maybe complete what Marsh started, or restart it. Whatever it takes.)
> >
> > Just my $0.01.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Aero/EBrown
>
> 1\. Thanks :D
> 2\. I like 2008 but before I release I will upgrade it for everyone :D
> 3\. 1/2 of it is going right through one ear and out the other mainly because he is above me. But I am not stopping now.
> 4\. Thanks, again.
> 5\. I agree, arguing here isn't changing anything.
>
> and 6\. I wish you luck with your edit if you decide to make it :D

Yeah, I am learning VC++ before I move to standard C++. Maybe even C. Idk yet.

Also, if you want another tester, let me know. I have no life.

Thanks,
Aero/EBrown

[crzyone9584]

This good. Out of the 4 pages I've read, Good job on the item editor. I really can't wait for this to work. Also what type of file system are usisng? .ini and vb.net really dont mix well. Are you using xml files for the user file?

[chuchoide]

Looking very nice man, this will definetely help me.
I have VB8 IDE plus I'll learn how a game's structure is made.

Supporting this, I'm definetely supporting this. Nice work Jc, will look forward on this.

[jcsnider]

For now I am using the normal binary file systems as vb6 did. It still has the 1-2 ini files for teh configuration. I personally like MySql but I know how hard that can be for n00bs to get working so I do not know what I will switch to when I start adding my own twist to this engine.

[Godlord]

MySQL is only useful if you have tons and tons of data to manage. For most simplistic things the fetching is too slow to be useful compared to local files that are structured properly.

Regards,
  Stephan.

[unknown]

Speed is not the only thing that matters in a language, Stephen just likes to rage on anyone who doesn't conform to his narrow minded view of programming.

.NET is a good framework.. It's not the fastest but it's great if you want to finish a large project. NET is widely used across many websites and applications. I'm not going to respond anymore because Stephen will just rage some more and lock the topic. Keep up the good work, and don't give up just because one idiot says you're wrong.

[jcsnider]

Haha, thanks unknown.

[azure]

jcsnider, Be weary of doing things "the vb6 way" in the '08 and '10\. That's all I have to say.

[dlom]

This + Mono + Linux = FTW

[Godlord]

@unknown:

> Speed is not the only thing that matters in a language, Stephen just likes to rage on anyone who doesn't conform to his narrow minded view of programming.
>
> .NET is a good framework.. It's not the fastest but it's great if you want to finish a large project. NET is widely used across many websites and applications. I'm not going to respond anymore because Stephen will just rage some more and lock the topic. Keep up the good work, and don't give up just because one idiot says you're wrong.

There are far more aspects than just performance, such as robustness. By thinking I only care about performance, you just proved that you yourself are narrow-minded. But I have yet to see a reason why to access BSD sockets for instance through multiple interfaces where you gain nothing in the other aspects, and on top of that only reduce in performance. There is a reason why people still use libraries written in C (or Assembly; e.g. libc) and for C, in C++.

If you consider .net to be portable, I have yet to disagree again: C is portable to the extent that you can support all the platforms you can possibly mention without looking them up in a huge list. This includes embedded hardware such as mobile phones and consoles. You can consider portability useless though, if the programme gets too slow, which is an issue with embedded hardware and several other hardware configurations. But that's less of a problem for C, it's more a problem for the languages that need half a compiler set.

User-friendliness is also important, nobody likes downloading the source, running some Makefile and then get some annoying shell without a manual. But that has nothing to do with what you use to programme, but how you programme it and how much you care about your audience. And again performance is an important aspect since nobody likes to wait several minutes before the programme finishes initialising.

Before trying to bash ad hominem, you should perhaps bother writing arguments.

Also, .net has became so popular in the world wide web, that people still use PHP, JSP and generally Java. On top of that, whenever PHP becomes too slow, a site like Facebook actually moves to C/C++ (e.g. HipHop), noticing an enormous performance boost.

Anno 2010 performance still seems to be an important aspect, that has been in the void for way too long, unlike most other aspects.

Regards,
  Stephan.

[crzyone9584]

@jcsnider:

> For now I am using the normal binary file systems as vb6 did. It still has the 1-2 ini files for teh configuration. I personally like MySql but I know how hard that can be for n00bs to get working so I do not know what I will switch to when I start adding my own twist to this engine.

I'd stay away from mysql. You'll have more of a hassle having new people who do not know how to use mysql asking questions about it than the engine itself. Also I'd go away from the ini files since your in 08 and then upgrading to 10\. XML works alot better with 08 and 10.

[Chief]

No, I'd say go for the MySql. if users are buggered by it, then they can learn. Its a nifty feature… mind you, i won't be using this, lol, but it seems nice.

[jcsnider]

Or both…. XML by default but more advanced users can set up MySql by changing ini values with server info. Either way it is not important at the moment. A different saving system(s) would come after the first public release.

[azure]

jcsnider, It doesn't sound like you've actually planned this out correctly? All of the basic features should be in the primary release.

[crzyone9584]

It seems to me he has. He has all the basics covered it looks like to me. Mysql is not basic. That takes time to write up tables and make sure it will work correctly. I'd say leave that out until you work out the bugs from the first basic release and build in a system that will allow you to use xml or Mysql or both even.