Is this really worth 60 bucks?

[dariken]

From what I understand, this used to be free but now you have to pay 60 dollars.   I mean sure there's the silver version but you really can't make anything with that.   I want this but I just don't think it's worth the price tag especially since it's missing some basic features that should be in there, can't modify scripts to make the game the way we want it, is using and outdated and soon to be no longer supported language and has an interface that's difficult to work with.   In my opinion at least right now this isn't worth anywhere near 60 dollars.   So what do you guys think.   Do you think the engine in it's current state is worth 60 bucks.   And please don't come in here saying, "Well then just don't get it and just learn to program." because I am currently studying C.   I just want to know if anyone agrees with me and if you don't why do you think it's worth such a steep price tag?

[SkywardRiver]

I personally agree with you. 60 dollars is waaaaay to steep. 10$, they would make more money (because they would sell more). The fact that it is closed source is even another draw-back.

It used to be free, yes, but the engine itself was supposedly improved since then.

[dariken]

I guess they got the price idea from RPG Maker but the thing is RPG Maker has so many more features, runs alot smoother and you can script with a constantly updating language.   Though I do think 90 dollars was asking too much for the latest version but I got it anyway.   If they did some serious updating on this, upgraded to a more up to date language and let us script then I could see it being worth about 60 but unless they do some serious work it'll never be worth that much.   Eclipse has some real potential but unless it gets in more capable hands or the current owners actually do something I'm afraid it will never reach that potential….

[SkywardRiver]

Yeah. What he said ^^^^ 

Haha, but no really. You're absolutely right.

[dariken]

Wow, and here I thought I'd get flamed.   You guys are awesome.

[SkywardRiver]

Don't get your hopes to high, you will most likely still get flamed in the long run. Most of us agree with you though. By the way, I posted in a thread of yours where you were asking for Hair and Character Creation Resources

[Amish]

So what features do you think are missing? By the way we will start making announcements soon about the new version, completely rewritten from scratch. that is what we have mostly been working on. It will be truely cross platform and work in Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, Iphone, and on Facebook. It also has Lua scripting support.

[dariken]

> So what features do you think are missing? By the way we will start making announcements soon about the new version, completely rewritten from scratch. that is what we have mostly been working on. It will be truely cross platform and work in Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, Iphone, and on Facebook. It also has Lua scripting support.

I want enemies to be able to use spells, guild support and a crafting system.   Enemies need spells to make challenging boss fights Otherwise people will get tired of the lack of real challenge.   Plus with the ability for bosses to use spells it would make for more interesting fights and give a reason for people to work as a team.   Plus crafting exists in almost every mmo.   I'm only trying to help.

[SkywardRiver]

> So what features do you think are missing? **By the way we will start making announcements soon about the new version, completely rewritten from scratch. that is what we have mostly been working on. It will be truely cross platform and work in Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, Iphone, and on Facebook. It also has Lua scripting support.**

Best news I've heard all day.

[Kyrie]

> I want enemies to be able to use spells, guild support and a crafting system.   Enemies need spells to make challenging boss fights Otherwise people will get tired of the lack of real challenge.   Plus with the ability for bosses to use spells it would make for more interesting fights and give a reason for people to work as a team.   Plus crafting exists in almost every mmo.   I'm only trying to help.

With the price range of the competitior's stuff $60 is pretty cheap in comparison.

You have to remember you're buying an engine to mold your own product. Eclipse, RPG Maker, and similar products don't include everything you need to make your vision. How could they?

You can only go with what is the easiest for you to make your vision a reality by your own hands. I don't appreciate saying that something is not as good as another product because of features.

With the aparent inclusion in Lua support everything you just mentioned would be amazing.

Also, if the source was included in the $60 that would make it for me.

So all in all, please keep in mind the hard work the team has put into it already, and don't be so insensitive.

// Kyrie

[dariken]

Also, another thing you might want to consider is having armor being able to increase your HP and MP.   Otherwise the player won't have a way to increase those when they reach max level and you won't be able to make endgame content more challenging because the player won't have the health to withstand content with ramped up difficulty.

[lel]

How can you compare rpg make to this? Rpg make focuses on an off line single player turn base game. Sure you can modify it…. But I certainly can't. One could argue that it would take just as much work to make eclipse a turned bases battle system. On the other hand EO focuses on a on line action battle system that you can use commercially ( the commercial part being important.)

[dariken]

> How can you compare rpg make to this? Rpg make focuses on an off line single player turn base game. Sure you can modify it…. But I certainly can't. One could argue that it would take just as much work to make eclipse a turned bases battle system. On the other hand EO focuses on a on line action battle system that you can use commercially ( the commercial part being important.)

I used rpg maker to point out how many features eclipse is missing such as enemies using skills.   I know they focus on two different things I was just using rpg maker to point out how much EO needs to upgrade to make it worth 60 dollars.   I'm not trying to put EO down I'm just giving some suggestions on how to make it better.   Also people do make comercial games with rpg maker it's just that most of them aren't worth paying for.   Not to mention that some of the best games for rpg maker are free.

[BeNjO]

the only thing i can suggest is open source. I like many of the older members used to love releasing tutorials and tinkering around "under the hood" but can not anymore. I understand the reasoning behind it but i, like alot of people, have no real need to come back because there is nothing we can do around here.

[dariken]

> the only thing i can suggest is open source. I like many of the older members used to love releasing tutorials and tinkering around "under the hood" but can not anymore. I understand the reasoning behind it but i, like alot of people, have no real need to come back because there is nothing we can do around here.

Or atleast add scripting.

[BeNjO]

scripting would not benefit me and others as its not VB coding, and last time i used sadscript i almost gave up any hope. I guess it was always going to end this way. I just hope Eclipse good luck and i'll still be around just for the projects people make and other open source engines.

[mrmiguu]

> Or atleast add scripting.

I would vote in favor of this.

(Maybe [this](http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?445218-How-to-run-a-VBscript-from-VB6)?)

[Stein]

There's actually a reason why scripting isn't implemented in the current iteration, you see the downside of VBScript is that it allows full control over the server OS through scripting, and since the majority of Gold servers (and some Silver) are hosted on the EclipseOrigins.com server space this would simply cause too many security threats that could possibly shut down other servers, the entire server machine(s) or worse.

[Helladen]

> So what features do you think are missing? By the way we will start making announcements soon about the new version, completely rewritten from scratch. that is what we have mostly been working on. It will be truely cross platform and work in Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, Iphone, and on Facebook. It also has Lua scripting support.

I don't think JC or you have the expertise to make proper LUA scripting. You would of been better off making an event based system with scripting to the side - similar to Sadscript, so veterans who were here a long time would jump in and help new members straight away. But of all the let downs of this site takeover, there isn't much else you guys can do to disappoint me.

[Stein]

You'd be surprised, it's already working to an extent we can use it to write Tag in it on an internal demo. :)

[Saga]

Some nice replies here, seth helladen and tehdoug.

I suggest open source too. Of course, you couldn't charge for the software anymore, but just do like that:

>Opensource

>create an additional forum, only viewable when logged in

>charge for registration

>let users discuss there

>Ofc they can copy-past tutorials and stuff, but if you don't charge too much, guys will register to participate in the biggest community and get support.

(>Give me tah money)

[lel]

You guys will probably get open source when they finish the newest version of eclipse. Then guess what? You'll cry about wanting that too. Funny thing about all the people crying about not having open source, ESPECIALLY the guy who said " I like many of the older members used to love releasing tutorials and tinkering around "under the hood" but can not anymore."    totally dude… You can't write tutorials or tinker under the hood of EO 3.0 or other custom engine at all. I bet Amish himself would just come a delete whatever help you tried to lend to the community with a tutorial or fix for any other custom engine. I heard when JC tried to help nin on line, Amish hit him with a whip, for ever line of code he fixed. Yeah... no more helping the community and its all evil Amish and JC's fault... I hate those guys.  

lol.... sigh...

[BeNjO]

lel, unlike yourself i have been around since Elysium was around with Pingu, i have worked on SilverDale - pre Justin take over, prospekt online, plus my own "game". My homicide online thread proves i can code. Just voicing opinions and there was no need to drag me into your post.

[Growlith1223]

Yes because everyone totally wants to fix up a custom engine someone else started and surely doesn't want to use the new engine's source because it has most of the fixes there have been found ;)

you say it's crying yet you cry about people crying about things. irony i guess? :P

on-topic: i don't really feel it's worth it especially since it's being used in an outdated language. i do know there is already a new engine in the works but my point still stands. if they maybe lowered the price a bit, then it might be worth it but since they most likely won't, then i guess i will have to say it's not worth $60\. you can say that there are custom engines but most of them(probably all actually) are bugged more than the standard eo2 and eo3\. it all comes down to a matter of preference. it's like saying "well, we have this car, it is for sale but you get little to no control on it. we are planning to add some things to it to give you more control but you will never get full. we do have all these other cars here but some won't start, others would have horrible insides, and some would have trash in them."

Sure we have eo2 and eo3\. people like the stability of eo2 but they don't want the event system and don't know how to rip it out or make a whole new graphics engine. people like eo3 but don't want the event system or dx8\. and yet again, they wouldn't know how to rip it out. 

im probably going to get a lot of butthurt messages because of this <3

Sincerely,

Growlith1223

[BeNjO]

I agree on most parts about new language etc, but i could not, nor have got, the time to learn C++ (although i would love to!). I managed to make a "bot" to play bitefight (web based game) for a friend but thats as far as my C++ days have gone. VB has always been my number one coding preference and would use VB or C++ (unless it was open source and fell in love with C++, ya' never know).