Help me choose a engine

[pinguinoz]

Googling for a MMORPG maker I discovered RPG Maker and one page lead to another until I landed here.

Hello. I'm new to this community and today I did a tedious reading to understand how things work here. I've spent a few hours trying different engines (sometimes just attempting to try) and I can't decide myself yet. Wish Eclipse Worlds was virus-clean so I could try it, because it looks like the most polished and updated engine even if I consider his author a depressed being and a lost soul.

I've tried Prospekt. GOOD looks but it crashed like 5 minutes after I started building a game with its external editor. Also I've read than even after you've made your game it has random server crashes ocasionally.

I've tried latest version of Eclipse Origins. VERY BAD looks and unpolished system. I couldn't even take my pants off because there wasn't a class for pants in the ini file, and if I deleted pants graphics the game would crash.

I've tried Eclipse Renewal. Seems stable, UI looks fine and I can change character sprites easily unlike with Origins, but the character movement feels so slow (maybe because there's no diagonal movement).

I just need stability and a headache-free work environment. I design websites so I'm used to reading and understanding code, that's why I don't need a GUI for everything, I have no problem in editing language/config/class/script/GUI/graphics files, but I have not the experience or the patience to fix bugs in Visual Basic. I need a bug-free stable engine and I wish it could hold at least 100 online players in the future. Any ideas?

[xelander]

Eclipse Worlds is clean as far as I know, not sure what gives off that it isn't, some information on this would be great.

Prospekt is a very buggy engine, and generally you want a very stable engine that is fail proof.

Eclipse Origins has varying results depending on the version, EO4 is rather unpolished, but feature-rich, while previous versions have some more stability, but lacks features and some other optimizations.

I have not used Renewal, can't say much about it, but you can change movement speed in the source. It's rare for an engine to have diagonal movement.

I still stand for Eclipse Worlds, but since you are stating that it has a virus, it is needed that you give us some information on this, since it has not really been stated before. I'm not sure on how well any engine can handle 100 players capacity, but if any of them is able to, it's probably Eclipse Worlds.

[Helladen]

Eclipse Worlds is going to be getting full support. I suggest using my engine. Eclipse Origins 4.2 is just here for now, basically an archived engine like the rest of the ones we offer on the site. Advanced users and veterans use these engines, new users should use our supported engine.

[pinguinoz]

> Eclipse Worlds is clean as far as I know, not sure what gives off that it isn't, some information on this would be great.
>
>  
>
> Prospekt is a very buggy engine, and generally you want a very stable engine that is fail proof.
>
>  
>
> Eclipse Origins has varying results depending on the version, EO4 is rather unpolished, but feature-rich, while previous versions have some more stability, but lacks features and some other optimizations.
>
>  
>
> I have not used Renewal, can't say much about it, but you can change movement speed in the source. It's rare for an engine to have diagonal movement.
>
>  
>
> I still stand for Eclipse Worlds, but since you are stating that it has a virus, it is needed that you give us some information on this, since it has not really been stated before. I'm not sure on how well any engine can handle 100 players capacity, but if any of them is able to, it's probably Eclipse Worlds.

Thank you for your reply. All I can tell you about the virus alert is "Win32:Evo-gen" (generic alert) and it's related to "explorer.exe". I am not stating it has a virus, I am stating it could be a virus. The network I would like to run the server on is protected by antivirus software and I don't have priviledges to disable it, so can't run the server. That's all. But you totally understood my point, I'd rather have an online chatroom with 24/7 uptime than a fancy server with lots of features that crashes ten times a day.

[abhi2011]

> Thank you for your reply. All I can tell you about the virus alert is "Win32:Evo-gen" (generic alert) and it's related to "explorer.exe". I am not stating it has a virus, I am stating it could be a virus. The network I would like to run the server on is protected by antivirus software and I don't have priviledges to disable it, so can't run the server. That's all. But you totally understood my point, I'd rather have an online chatroom with 24/7 uptime than a fancy server with lots of features that crashes ten times a day.

None of the servers/clients on this website has any viruses. As all ways it's a false alert by your Anti-Virus. You can if possible white list the server/client on your AV.

[Mohenjo Daro]

> I've tried Eclipse Renewal. Seems stable, UI looks fine and I can change character sprites easily unlike with Origins, but the character movement feels so slow (maybe because there's no diagonal movement).

Diagonal movement isn't that good unless you have the 8 dir character sheets which most people don't, and it can get buggy unless you code in the fixes. Anyways, as for the slowness aspect, it's slow because we've actually implemented running (one of the few engines to actually fix that) that increases with agi, and we don't want you out walking the NPCs. It's a simple change in the code if you want to change the walking speed, just search Running and you should find walking_speed right under it, set to 6 if I remember correctly?

[pinguinoz]

> Eclipse Worlds is going to be getting full support. I suggest using my engine. Eclipse Origins 4.2 is just here for now, basically an archived engine like the rest of the ones we offer on the site. Advanced users and veterans use these engines, new users should use our supported engine.

After overthinking it too much, I think I wouldn't have gotten the false positive if you didn't implement code able to send information from my machine to yours. Call me evil-minded but I've seen this before.

> Diagonal movement isn't that good unless you have the 8 dir character sheets which most people don't, and it can get buggy unless you code in the fixes. Anyways, as for the slowness aspect, it's slow because we've actually implemented running (one of the few engines to actually fix that) that increases with agi, and we don't want you out walking the NPCs. It's a simple change in the code if you want to change the walking speed, just search Running and you should find walking_speed right under it, set to 6 if I remember correctly?

I pressed shift (intuitively) and saw what you said, then made another character with default agility for testing purposes. Not bad, it adds gameplay and makes sense if you want to have faster/slower classes or races.
I figured what was giving me the 'weird' feeling: if you hold Left and press Down while holding Left, then your character moves Down; BUT if you hold Right and press Down while holding Right, your character keeps running/walking to the right. Also, you can Down-Right, but you can't Down-Left. And you can't Up-anything. This happens with Eclipse Origins too so no complaints about your engine xDD.

[Mohenjo Daro]

> I pressed shift (intuitively) and saw what you said, then made another character with default agility for testing purposes. Not bad, it adds gameplay and makes sense if you want to have faster/slower classes or races.
>
> I figured what was giving me the 'weird' feeling: if you hold Left and press Down while holding Left, then your character moves Down; BUT if you hold Right and press Down while holding Right, your character keeps running/walking to the right. Also, you can Down-Right, but you can't Down-Left. And you can't Up-anything. This happens with Eclipse Origins too so no complaints about your engine xDD.

Yeah, that's because of the order that the keys are in in the coding, well, pretty sure it is, though it doesn't really affect the game too much, good luck finding an engine.

Also, SEB engine, EVO, Dragon Eclipse, and Final Frontier are all good engines too.

[pinguinoz]

Let's be honest here. A talented programmer able to develop networking code doesn't notice a virus alert of his own program? Obviously he does, and the most important fact: he knows why.

I found astonishing no one complained about this, so I searched and then I came into a post from October 2014 where another user mentioned that his antivirus didn't go along well with the server.exe, and Seth answered something like "There's no virus. Are you really gonna doubt my word? Trust me."

Now the user from India guarantees there's no virus, but, like Seth, he doesn't provide any information related to the issue. If I've learned something in my life is that only a con man would ask you to believe his word without giving proof. They both share the same signature so they obviously work together.

Why he hasn't fixed it yet? He's looking for a way to cover up that code and make it 100% undetectable, and until he does that it's better for him not to say a word, keep it low profile because the less people keeping track of it the better. He aims for new users with his businessman mentality so the server will become malware clean eventually.

The truth is I already know what is going on (thank you reverse engineering), and I know why he won't ever confess. 

This was his argument in October:

**_And the fact that you shouldn't care if the server has a virus or not based upon the findings of AVs. The client is the only thing you should be scanning. There's not going to be a virus in a program I compile that is also open-source._**

I will let you guys judge the strenght of his argument by asking two questions: 1\. Shouldn't we really care if the server has a virus? 2\. Since when releasing source code changes anything? Even I could shorten/enlarge a random piece of code in SOURCECODE-PUBLIC so I could introduce an *extra* in SOURCECODE-PRIVATE but the size of both packages remains the same even in a byte level after I compile SOURCECODE-PUBLIC and release it for downloading.

[Colonello]

I also do recommend Worlds based on how it's the official/supported version of Eclipse. Based on how you're pretty much guaranteed bug fixes and new features (unlike other custom engines that could stop being supported at any time) it's the best pick at the moment.

Also about your virus claims they're not true. It's a false positive definitely. The engine was built with VB6 (an old no longer supported language) so obviously it'll have an issue with new and updated virus scanners. What would anyone gain from making a widely used engine in to a virus? If it was a virus everyone would've known a long time ago.

[UnGod]

Not even going to hold back.

Let's be honest here. A talented programmer able to develop networking code doesn't notice a virus alert of his own program? Obviously he does, and the most important fact: he knows why.

yes, programmers who program viruses know they are viruses.

If im building a trap and putting it inside of a box I would indeed know about the trap.

the chances of me accidentally building a trap while building anything besides a trap would be very very low.

none of your statement is sensible, and almost makes me believe you dont understand that a virus doesnt happen accidentally.

its not like the programmer is just coding dirty and infects the code with germs that create viruses.

a virus is code SPECIFICALLY intended to do something that you dont want.  its entirely on purpose.

yes. if i make a virus i will know there is a virus.

if i make a cake i will know there is a cake.

what exactly needed to be clarified with honesty?

I found astonishing no one complained about this, so I searched and then I came into a post from October 2014 where another user mentioned that his antivirus didn't go along well with the server.exe, and Seth answered something like "There's no virus. Are you really gonna doubt my word? Trust me."

Now the user from India guarantees there's no virus, but, like Seth, he doesn't provide any information related to the issue. If I've learned something in my life is that only a con man would ask you to believe his word without giving proof. They both share the same signature so they obviously work together.

life isnt so black and white that if someone doesnt provide proof they're a con man. How exactly did you even expect someone to give proof that their entire code had no viruses in it? did you want him to go line by line and explain the function of each piece of code? for those who dont know how to code he could just lie. for those who do know how to code, THE PROGRAM IS OPEN SOURCE.

if you think there is a virus feel free to go look for it.

the signature is from a game. Seth runs the game and the other guy plays the game. a lot of people have runescape signatures so clearly they're all in a cult plotting to grow code viruses.

Why he hasn't fixed it yet? He's looking for a way to cover up that code and make it 100% undetectable, and until he does that it's better for him not to say a word, keep it low profile because the less people keeping track of it the better. He aims for new users with his businessman mentality so the server will become malware clean eventually.

You're using words you dont understand and its painfully obvious. the code he's "covering up" is open source. ALL of the code is there for you to read. there is no way to cover something when you have the entire program given to you uncompiled.  100% undetectable virus is impossible, and even if that was the goal he'd more likely create the super mega virus THEN put it into the open source program that anyone can read and easily find super mega ultimate virus.

here is a link for you.

[https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=define+malware](https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=define+malware)

you are accusing seth, of hiding a virus in a program that anyone can see and keeping it hidden until it stops being a virus but its still a virus thats 100% undetectable.

The truth is I already know what is going on (thank you reverse engineering), and I know why he won't ever confess. 

no. you dont. but if you DO! why dont you explain? are you a con man too? if you dont explain you're a con man.

This was his argument in October:

**_And the fact that you shouldn't care if the server has a virus or not based upon the findings of AVs. The client is the only thing you should be scanning. There's not going to be a virus in a program I compile that is also open-source._**

I will let you guys judge the strength of his argument by asking two questions: 1\. Shouldn't we really care if the server has a virus? 2\. Since when releasing source code changes anything? Even I could shorten/enlarge a random piece of code in SOURCECODE-PUBLIC so I could introduce an *extra* in SOURCECODE-PRIVATE but the size of both packages remains the same even in a byte level after I compile SOURCECODE-PUBLIC and release it for downloading.

it seems that english isnt your first language so id really suggest you dont try to argue in english anywhere even if you actually know what you're talking about at the time. open source. the code in its entirety is there for you to read. no clue what you're talking about otherwise.

[Mohenjo Daro]

Yes, people who program can make viruses, we don't because it's only temporary amusement, and Worlds isn't a virus, look in the code if you want. No where does it send the server files to another computer except for the clients. Antivirus say it could be a virus because it weakens your firewall protection because you're letting other computers send information directly to your computer.

Now, it would be nice if the issue of the false positive was fixed, but claiming it's a virus just because it was claimed that it wasn't with no proof is just as dumb. You have no proof either.

Oh yeah, since it's my thing, let's please keep this thread on topic, not bashing engine,s if you want to criticize Worlds, then by all means do, but please make a thread titled justly for said action. Thank you.

[Marsh]

Eclipse has been reported as a virus for at least 5 or 6 years. If it does have one its been in a looooong time.

[Matt]

> Eclipse has been reported as a virus for at least 5 or 6 years. If it does have one its been in a looooong time.

The only virus in the engine is VB6, amiright?

[Helladen]

Virus detection software is fail safe. It will detect software that is legit as a virus, sorry that you are not smart enough at a computer to know that anti-virus is for novice computer users. I didn't code **Eclipse Origins 4**, I coded **Eclipse Worlds**.

[abhi2011]

> -snip-

Pretty sure UnGod must have clarified stuff (I don't have time to read) 

The entire engine starting from the first engine of which Eclipse is based on is open source. If you have any doubts over the authenticity of the source code then please go through it yourself. (You may read from the very first to the very last line of code) There is no piece in the engine that is closed source. The only compiled and closed-source ones are the OCXs and DLLs provided by Microsoft, (These include the core components needed for VB6 to run and then some.), and in some engines there may be DLLs like ZLib and archiving dlls for zip files. You may get the dlls from the original sources if you're so insecure. 

Anti-viruses only tell you if it thinks a piece of software is a virus. It's up the user to decide whether it really is or whether it's just a false-positive of the Anti-Virus.

[pinguinoz]

> it seems that english isnt your first language so id really suggest you dont try to argue in english anywhere even if you actually know what you're talking about at the time. open source. the code in its entirety is there for you to read. no clue what you're talking about otherwise.

I am from Spain. I speak five languages and English is the fifth one I learned, before that I learned Spanish, French, German and Portuguese. I may not be able to speak like a native but my knowledge of English is enough to tell that the names of languages are always written with a capital letter. With your redaction skills and overall intelligence consider yourself lucky if you get a job at McDonalds.

Now I would argue with you, but fighting with so much advantage doesn't turn me on.

> Yes, people who program can make viruses, we don't because it's only temporary amusement, and Worlds isn't a virus, look in the code if you want. No where does it send the server files to another computer except for the clients. Antivirus say it could be a virus because it weakens your firewall protection because you're letting other computers send information directly to your computer.
>
> Now, it would be nice if the issue of the false positive was fixed, but claiming it's a virus just because it was claimed that it wasn't with no proof is just as dumb. You have no proof either.
>
>  
>
> Oh yeah, since it's my thing, let's please keep this thread on topic, not bashing engine,s if you want to criticize Worlds, then by all means do, but please make a thread titled justly for said action. Thank you.

The uncompiled/source version is clean, I tested it. I am talking about the compiled binary executable (server.exe). The virus scan is the proof like the proof of evolution is that we share a not-so-far common ancestor with the ape. A creationist will tell you that whatever the scientist found is a false positive, a mistake, a misunderstood. You can't weaken a firewall, you can disable a rule or turn it off, but a third party program doesn't have the power to do so, and if it did, well, that would be a malware.

> Eclipse has been reported as a virus for at least 5 or 6 years. If it does have one its been in a looooong time.

Sorry to read that.

> Virus detection software is fail safe. It will detect software that is legit as a virus, sorry that you are not smart enough at a computer to know that anti-virus is for novice computer users. I didn't code **Eclipse Origins 4**, I coded **Eclipse Worlds**.

I was given my first computer in 1986\. I don't know if I am smart at it, but I know that antivirus software is mandatory for Windows-based operating systems and anyone denying this fact has a big reason to do so. I am aware you coded Eclipse Worlds, my post in the Origins thread was an accident.

[Matt]

I don't want to get involved, but a bit of hostility is being directed towards Penguinoz. I'm aware I'm not a mod anymore, but I feel as though a line was crossed. No matter what his first language is, or experience with computers, the man asked a perfectly valid question.

[abhi2011]

> I was given my first computer in 1986\. I don't know if I am smart at it, but I know that antivirus software is mandatory for Windows-based operating systems and anyone denying this fact has a big reason to do so. I am aware you coded Eclipse Worlds, my post in the Origins thread was an accident.

I don't use an Anti-Virus other than the one Windows provides you with. (That'd be MSE for Windows 7 and lower and for Windows 8 it's Windows defender) I am not affected by any viruses and let me tell you that my machine is not my private one, my family uses it as well. I do occasionally get the PUPs by installs of someone on my PC but other than that no viruses. I see no reason why you would need an AV. 

EDIT: btw you say that when you compile it down there are no "viruses" in the client and/or server. So why not just use VB6 and compile it for yourself? If anyone is as insecure about viruses as you then they are free to get a copy of VB6 legit or otherwise and compile the exes

[pinguinoz]

> I don't use an Anti-Virus other than the one Windows provides you with. (That'd be MSE for Windows 7 and lower and for Windows 8 it's Windows defender) I am not affected by any viruses and let me tell you that my machine is not my private one, my family uses it as well. I do occasionally get the PUPs by installs of someone on my PC but other than that no viruses. I see no reason why you would need an AV. 
>
> EDIT: btw you say that when you compile it down there are no "viruses" in the client and/or server. So why not just use VB6 and compile it for yourself? If anyone is as insecure about viruses as you then they are free to get a copy of VB6 legit or otherwise and compile the exes

You use an antivirus and ask me why you would need one. Pardon me but I find that funny. Why don't you turn off that useless piece of resource-consuming trash?
Imagine how important is it that they've put one into the actual OS. Thousands of software's new versions are released every day and many contain exploits (most of the time unintentionally) that can be abused, or backdoors . There are even public exploit databases. For example, there've been countless exploits for browsers and 2384923471 patches to fix them, and still every day new vulnerabilities are discovered. How do you think DDoS attacks are performed? Millions of computers are infected and their users don't know it.

The Internet is not a safe place and I can expect you to believe something just because you trust someone, but stop telling fairy tales that a real beginner can believe. A false positive doesn't exist per se, it's always code potentially able to violate your privacy without your consent. 

If someone wants to discuss this matter please come with logic arguments and try to avoid ad hominem attacks, some of them work against you.

[Mohenjo Daro]

Pinguinoz please stop being hostile against us and everyone else, please stop the hostilities against him. Anyways, it's probably showing as a virus because it's from a different computer. And when I said weakens your firewall, I mean it can allow data past it without questioning it as soon as you click "Allow". As for people not capitalizing programming languages, that's called we're lazy, NOT unintelligent. Now, if you'd like to actually make useful or furthering questions, by all means do so, but bickering and trash talking is for sports, not for actual discussions about an engine.

I don't think I'll be replying to this thread unless it actually gets back on topic. Hope you find an engine.

[UnGod]

> I am from Spain. I speak five languages and English is the fifth one I learned, before that I learned Spanish, French, German and Portuguese. I may not be able to speak like a native but my knowledge of English is enough to tell that the names of languages are always written with a capital letter. With your redaction skills and overall intelligence consider yourself lucky if you get a job at McDonalds.
>
> Now I would argue with you, but fighting with so much advantage doesn't turn me on.

oh my bad i didnt realize intelligence was based on grammar.  Clearly you're superior. good luck finding the super undetectable virus inside the open source program.

[abhi2011]

Honestly, I don't care anymore. It's up to you to decide whether the engine is safe or not. You have the entire Source Code to check out to see if there are any "viruses". If you don't find any then you can go ahead and use the engine else GTFO.

[Exception]

Hey, the code is open source, let's say there hypothetically was a malicious block of code…wait a minute, you can inspect the code yourself, remove it, recompile it, distribute your new build, and there won't be anything wrong with it! Crisis averted.

ofc there isn't a virus in the thing, mirage source has been around for ages, you think nobody would notice "hey, my game is acting jacked up"?

lol, never change eclipse.

[lexkymbeth]

I have spent hours on reading on many eclipse-engines codes :P There are no viruses