deathtaker26 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > I won't get the money that the download center makes. That will go toward the hosting costs. I will make money by making plugins. People act like if you do work it is worthless around **Eclipse**.If you can actually finish something that you start I would listen, but people who act like that are usually lazy and inefficient workers. They are envious that they can't finish what they start.That's not the point, your entire post literally sounds like you're pulling an amish and selling a gold and free system. That's what I'm trying to tell you, edit the post and clarify, in detail, your plan. There's nothing wrong with having a plugin selling system, me and john actually had that idea as developers as well before quitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmegaXtc Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Without prior knowledge of the history of EO, and not having that knowledge somehow may make me unbias….The way I see it and I believe everyone agrees.. Eclipse Worlds is a superior product to EO.I personally don't feel automatically entitled to a superior product.  If there is a free version, I would call that an olive branch from those who put their time into developing it and would otherwise expect to pay something for use of said product.  If I make a donation, then it would be above and beyond for me to get something for that donation.in short:  everything costs money.  Something for free is a blessing.  Getting rewarded for donations is a plus if you already support the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeNjO Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 inb4[insert comment here]Ok, so just to clear everything up for people who are like WTF:Staying open source, minimum $5 (rough price), money made from other people (NOT related to eclipse, but eclipse takes a small cut from sale), Closed source API to allow the plugins (dont need this open source anyway) and EO is just another failed engine to add to the pile and EW has taken over. The domain no longer fits the engine #weeps.And for the record, I'm a gold member on Seths forum, hoping that will transfer here then? I have donated to LoAÂ and bought gold too so my status should come here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohenjo Daro Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 EW is better than EO 4+ and I'll admit that, but it is an EO engine too… Anyways, to add on to tehdoug, closed plugins does NOT mean closed source, the engine will stay open source~~, the donations will go to the site, not Seth unless you donate directly to him.~~ Sorry, misread a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeNjO Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > * We ask a set amount of money and put 75% or more of it into the project, the other 25% goes to the site costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helladen Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 > And for the record, I'm a gold member on Seths forum, hoping that will transfer here then? I have donated to LoA and bought gold too so my status should come here too.I may give **Gold Members**on both sites access to all my plugins for free.> EW is better than EO 4+ and I'll admit that, but it is an EO engine too… Anyways, to add on to tehdoug, closed plugins does NOT mean closed source, the engine will stay open source, the donations will go to the site, not Seth unless you donate directly to him.70% of the plugin sales will go to me. I actually will take a hit like everyone else who uses the plugin system I make. Think of me as a developer who makes new features like a **Pokemon Battle System** and sells it on the download center. I am not taking money from the cash pot at the top.> > * We ask a set amount of money and put 75% or more of it into the project, the other 25% goes to the site costs.75% goes to the goal we have set. For example, a goal of making the **Eclipse** website move to **Xenforo** forum software, we have a donation goal of $500\. To pay for the forum license and paying **Wing** to make a theme for it. This is not a case we are going to do likely, but it is just an example. I may change it to be 100% if the download center makes enough to pay for the hosting.This is just to get feedback about the future of **Eclipse** and is not set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeNjO Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Ah see, thats what i think Crest is talking about, Details. I dont mind helping out but I think ALL donations should cover every penny of the website and everything related to keeping this site alive, then anything after does into a pool for upgrading and other stuff. I think 100% of donations should goto coswts and anything after should go into the pool. This will keep the site alive and build up funds for expanding/upgrading.My gold status should transfer over, since EW is here and has replaced EO my status should move with the product. Kind of bummed it wasnt automatically (obviously not by it self) assumed it should happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helladen Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 > My gold status should transfer over, since EW is here and has replaced EO my status should move with the product. Kind of bummed it wasnt automatically (obviously not by it self) assumed it should happen.Right now, there are no perks for being a **Gold Member**. This poll is to determine the direction the site will be going. My website is not going anywhere, I am rebranding it to **Sllverdale**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Just to clear things up, I have no intention of forcing members to buy into anything. Also there's some discussion about the percentages as it's agreed that it's irrational to have much less go towards the site. The site would make the sales more possible to begin with, next bit is that still I want a percentage to go towards EW (a.k.a) Seth as more incentive to work on the engine as he's putting a lot of time and effort into it.Don't be mistaken, that's temporary, most of this is trial and error. Nothing can grow without trial. A new engine is in the works and I'd be upset if we charged members for something in vb6\. Really it's just a rough draft but the idea is to offer more perks to members who donate as well, instead of just a user group. It gives some people more incentive to donate and everyone is happy. Amish wanted people to overpay for an outdated engine, this is nothing like that. We're asking you to donate to help evolve, but not forcing this on you. There is no closed source, and for the most part everything will run the same.However I'll be totally honest, while looking for ways to monetize the plugin system we're working on seems to be the best option. Of course not in vb6, rather VB.Net with an engine that's actually worth it. This site will be more of a member economy, we'll just claim a percentage for offering a trading centre, I don't think this is wrong. Tons of money flow through my site and I ask for nothing at all from the talent centre, but I have to pay for the site in which people are using to offer their goods, is it fair to ask for a percentage and look out for myself as well?My goals have not changed as far as offering the members what they want, but I need to take care of myself too. I have a kid on the way and I blew money on this site, to be blunt I'm going to turn this into a business, but my objective is to keep the spirit of the site the same, not force people to pay for an engine and have everyone be able to offer their talents for free or for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mohenjo Daro Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think that the money pool that TehDoug suggested was a good idea, after the site is paid for, Seth gets his cut and such, the extra goes into a site pool to improve the site and not just into someone's pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkywardRiver Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 My God. A 'donation' model. LOLIn other news, I'll continue developing Eclipse Origins if the desire of the people is still there. If you want a developer that works for free and isn't a hypocrite that is.I'll most likely make a thread for it later, but if you want me to continue the development of EO just hit the **Like**Â button of this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffSventora Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I wouldn't sell dated technology - before you can make money make suitable software. This is probably the only living Mirage based community that isn't an archive… I wouldn't count on the Mirage legacy continuing on for much longer especially with engines like Unity and now UDK being FREE.In other words, I don't even think this should be a discussion yet... If money is an issue, the source is NOT the lack of member contribution therefore it shouldn't be a focus.Hell, just having members still show up and actively post is a contribution in itself considering they are what keeps this website alive. This place needs to ATTRACT new people and maintain it, rather then focusing on the existing members. People like us have been here for a while and will continue to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > I wouldn't sell dated technology - before you can make money make suitable software. This is probably the only living Mirage based community that isn't an archive… I wouldn't count on the Mirage legacy continuing on for much longer especially with engines like Unity and now UDK being FREE.> >  > > In other words, I don't even think this should be a discussion yet... If money is an issue, the source is NOT the lack of member contribution therefore it shouldn't be a focus.> >  > > Hell, just having members still show up and actively post is a contribution in itself considering they are what keeps this website alive. This place needs to ATTRACT new people and maintain it, rather then focusing on the existing members. People like us have been here for a while and will continue to be.While I agree with this, totally, the fact of the matter is members should want to contribute to help the upkeep of the site( and a select few do, thanks). Like previously stated this is incentive for already existing members. Reaching a larger crowd is of course an objective, but I'd like them to have something proper to come to. So I'm getting the site together now first. Otherwise I'm throwing out an empty line with nothing for the fish to wan to cling to. The donation bit and getting members on the site are two different situations.I'd love this to be a happy go lucky site that ran on love and hard work, but it isn't. My focus for now is the upkeep of the site, otherwise new members will just come to a site that might go down eventually. Hence monetizing to a point where the site can pay for its self. Trying to do what my predecessors couldn't, but hopefully in a different and more reasonable fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkywardRiver Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > While I agree with this, totally, the fact of the matter is members should want to contribute to help the upkeep of the site. Like previously stated this is incentive for already existing members. Reaching a larger crowd is of course an objective, but I'd like them to have something proper to come to. So I'm getting the site together now first. Otherwise I'm throwing out an empty line with nothing for the fish to wan to cling to. The donation bit and getting members on the site are two different situations.By all means, donate to the site. Make goals and such. For the love of all things good however, don't give a cut of these site donations to a self-entitled, narcissistic prick to just further his ego… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffSventora Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > While I agree with this, totally, the fact of the matter is members should want to contribute to help the upkeep of the site. Like previously stated this is incentive for already existing members. Reaching a larger crowd is of course an objective, but I'd like them to have something proper to come to. So I'm getting the site together now first. Otherwise I'm throwing out an empty line with nothing for the fish to wan to cling to. The donation bit and getting members on the site are two different situations.I feel like it could go two ways ultimately; for one, instead of writing an engine with a monetized plugin system that likely won't be secure (no offense but security is a very, VERY serious issue and requires professional expertise), you could maybe… write plugins for Unity that bring Mirage functionality to it and sell that? These issues work hand-in-hand. Attract more users, generate money through software and advertisement eliminating the NEED for donation or you could NEED donations to get the software, etc...What about merchandise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helladen Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 > I'll most likely make a thread for it later, but if you want me to continue the development of EO just hit the **Like**Â button of this post.No man. If I felt entitled I would take some money from the donations, I actually turned it down on the donations. You are just wrong and spreading lies.If you look, the donations all go to @[member="Link"]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkywardRiver Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > No man. If I felt entitled I would take some money from the donations, I actually turned it down on the donations. You are just wrong and spreading lies.LOLYou're entitled af, but I have no further comment. Go on with your silly debates, Eclipse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > I feel like it could go two ways ultimately; for one, instead of writing an engine with a monetized plugin system that likely won't be secure (no offense but security is a very, VERY serious issue and requires professional expertise), you could maybe… write plugins for Unity that bring Mirage functionality to it and sell that? These issues work hand-in-hand. Attract more users, generate money through software and advertisement eliminating the NEED for donation or you could NEED donations to get the software, etc...> >  > > What about merchandise?Merchandise has come up in discussion, and some members agree. I'll actually make a poll about that, but with Merch it's a risky situation where as with the plugin method there's no risk vs work vs reward. However, I'd personally love to see Eclipse merch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helladen Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 > You're entitled af, but I have no further comment. Go on with your silly debates, Eclipse.You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all of the time. That's all I got to say to haters like you, who don't do anything but bring others down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffSventora Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > Merchandise has come up in discussion, and some members agree. I'll actually make a poll about that, but with Merch it's a risky situation where as with the plugin method there's no risk vs work vs reward. However, I'd personally love to see Eclipse merch.[http://www.spreadshirt.com/](http://www.spreadshirt.com/)Create your own storefront, let them do all the work for you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > [http://www.spreadshirt.com/](http://www.spreadshirt.com/)> > Â > > Create your own storefront, let them do all the work for you :)I'll look into this for sure, Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helladen Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 I don't think **Eclipse** can be ran off of merchandise no offense. Donation model for progress is the best approach. Once, I actually have a good base to work with, **Eclipse** can set goals for big updates such as a new server or toolset which would be completely open-source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffSventora Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > I don't think **Eclipse** can be ran off of merchandise no offense. Donation model for progress is the best approach. Once, I actually have a good base to work with, **Eclipse** can set goals for big updates such as a new server or toolset which would be completely open-source.Not saying it would solve the issue, but I'd rather pay $25 and get a T-Shirt than to just donate $25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helladen Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 > Not saying it would solve the issue, but I'd rather pay $25 and get a T-Shirt than to just donate $25.That's reasonable, which is why I was going to give **Donators** the ability to download my engine for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 > Not saying it would solve the issue, but I'd rather pay $25 and get a T-Shirt than to just donate $25.We had a store before, you get about 1$ tops for that tshirt. Not 25$, someone had to make it and take there cut. Unless you add a big markup on the shirts. Which is doable I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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