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Will Eclipse game ever go anywhere?

Jacquelinett

By Jacquelinett,
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Anna Comnena Newbie

Anna Comnena

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Nothing about Robin is based on fame or cash. His relative success now is more do to his hard work in the real world, using the experience his tinkering with Eclipse (and Mirage) had gained him.

You're not gonna make the next big WoW game off Eclipse. If you are successful with Eclipse you'll wind up with a small project where you might get a good core player base, and a lot of experience with the logistics of designing an MMO. You won't get instant success or a game you can live off of.
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saadhamza Newbie

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Minecraft is also the product of a man who got extremely lucky in getting the name out about his game. If he didn't have such a massive support group, i doubt he would have gotten that far as quickly as he did.

> Oh. So now you are the one who is being negative.
> Yo bro, im looking up at Lazy Foo's tutorial at the moment. Im pretty sure im gonna get a big team soon.

  I honestly can't tell if you're joking or being serious. Let's just say it in a straight forward way. You will mostly likely Never be able to get a MMO as famous as Ragnarok online using Eclipse. I joined 3 years ago or something like that, and had the exact same thoughts.

I wanted to make a really famous and awesome game that everyone would like. Actually, i wanted to make a game more like Maplestory than Ragnarok, but you get the idea. Almost everyone that comes here wants to do the same thing. Usually, the older members slap them back into place before they get too annoying.

The difference between You and the other companies, such as Ragnarok:
First of all, they made their engines Themselves! Do you really think it's that easy, that you can just use a premade engine and expect to be able to do everything? Maybe, if you have an advanced understanding of programming and a lot of money/time. You have neither.

Secondly, they Do have a lot of money. And professionals that work for them. This isn't being negative, just giving you advice. It's not about "starting small and getting big". It's about learning and working your way towards a goal. I think that actually may be some advice from Robin i read somewhere.
And you're not going to get a big team, unless you're better then they are.

Now, about programming in C++. You're looking at it the wrong way, i think. C++ wasn't strictly made for making games, it's not a "game maker". So, trying to learn only the "gaming" part of C++ is absolutely worthless. You have to start from the beginning, and slowly progress into deeper concepts, most of which have nothing to do with strictly making a game, and more to do with programming in general. Remember, C++ is a Language, meaning that you Speak with it. There are multiple ways to say things in any language. Some ways are shorter, some ways are more poetic, but in the end they all deliver the same meaning. And you have to master the langauge before you can use it the way you want. it's like trying to write a Shakespearean Sonnet in English, when all that you know in English is what you learned from the first course in Rosetta Stone.

So, i think you should calm down, sorry. You're not going to be that exception to the rule. You won't become rich and famous off of some video game at the age of 15\. For me to tell you that you will would be as good as me sucking a few more months out of your life. I think you should drop VB6, and start learning C, or any other language that you like. Get the basics down, and then start understanding the principles of programming. After you've done that, you'll be able to think about your own game engine. Or maybe by then you'll be more mature, and will have different ideas on what to do.

Also, if you haven't already, read this article http://lazyfoo.net/articles/article01/index.php
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kris_hole Newbie

kris_hole

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@Greg:

> For everyone who says you need a big development team to have a popular game, all I have to say is Minecraft.

You're an idiot -.- There will always be exceptions, but consider this, minecraft is but one indie game that managed to get huge, and even at that it's through fluke, Minecraft is a good game, for about a week… then you've no idea what else to do other than build more houses and shit... it's like lego, as a kid FUCKING MAZING, pick it up now, you'll make like 1 thing a year, if that...

Think of how many MILLIONS of indie games are released each year, how many have you heard of becoming famous opposing the the leading titles within the Games Industry,

For Instance lets look at Call of Duty shall we (fuck MW3, that was shit), Modern Warfare 2 cost just over $45 million to make... Activision just threw money at the developers to make the game as amazing as possible to be the successor of MW1, In the first 6 months of it's release, MW2 brought in over $1billion in profits from sales and revenue.

MW2 also had a team of 46 developers working on the game non stop from start to finish, each with leading roles and sub roles.

Minecraft is nothing compared to the leading games in the industry, you may turn round and say "46 people isn't that much" But when you consider how much you're going to have to pay them for their wages in the professions these people do, that's a fucking lot of money.

So yes, occasionally there are exceptions from the indie devs, but very very very very very fucking rarely. The people with the most money make the biggest games. Minecraft is barely complex, there's really fuck all in it if you think about it, just a few billion voxels and some entities and a bit of redstone, that's it. compared to the complexety of leading titles.

use your brain before posting such idiocy... Minecraft only became popular through Steam giving it publicity, before steam nobody had heard of it, and before the hipsters jump in saying they played it before it was cool, everyone has at least one friend who uses steam and i bet they were the one who introduced you to minecraft. Moral is: If it wasn't for steam, minecraft would be just another indie game that some guy made in his spare time that got nowhere.

The gaming industry is of the most difficult industries to make it in, and this bit is directed towards the OP, if you HONESTLY think that having that attitude towards making games, the "I don't want to make them because i enjoy making games, i want to make a huge game an become rich because i deserve it and i'm so fucking awesome!" then turn the fuck around, hit the log out button and go continue with your life working as a cashier in McDonalds, because you're a fucking idiot too. People make games because they have a passion for it, just like doctors have a passion for medicine, authors have a passion for writing, artists have a passion for producing art, no passion = you're already failing before you've even put your foot on the ladder.

Moral of my rant to you, continue playing the piano, but games development isn't for you...
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Robin Newbie

Robin

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Seems the thread is already clogged with tl;dr posts so I'll just add in a couple of points. Take them for what you will.

Don't go in to game design with the goal of making a popular game. This might seem counter intuitive but it's an important point. All the best Eclipse projects were based around creating your own personal experience. The top talent don't sit around sweating over how to get 1,000s of people logging in at once. They simply decide what they'd like to play in a game and create it for other people.

Crystalshire was built in under 24 hours using that exact principle, and I know that Silverdale, Godborn and Elandor were all built with the same mentality.

Now you've had a ton of people post in this thread and I only spot a couple of people who actually released anything. Ever. In 8 years of history. This should show just how well the 'Do everything yourself and try and make it future-proof for 10,000 members' workflow works.

Get the core gameplay done as fast as possible. Get it working. It doesn't matter if you've only got 5 levels of gameplay. If you polish it off that gameplay will be a nugget of gold. From there you'll get a dedicated player base. From there you'll become more and more motivated to release new things. You'll be able to notice trends as they happen. You'll be able to get feedback from thousands of people… There really is nothing like it.

Running an MMORPG is addictive. You get a huge sense of satisfaction when you suddenly realise that your creation is actually worth something. The moment I saw people's excitment over getting a rare boss drop in Crystalshire, the moment I saw people working their arses off to get the gold to buy new equipment... You cannot beat that feeling at all. Nothing beats it. And believe me, this is coming from someone who'll try just about anything to get a good feeling out of it. It's rare for me to be seen sober.

Trying to get everything perfect before you release it is simply madness. You can never do it. Instead you end up going back and re-working systems. Re-creating entire portions of the game. You get stuck in a cycle. Everyone does. You need to break out of that cycle by just getting it out there. From there you can fix anything that's broken. If something doesn't work as well as it could then who cares? Try it out, try to fix it. If nothing works then replace it.

I used to be the exact same before I worked on Silverdale. I re-worked the same game for close to 4 years before I finally just ditched it all, took the experience from it and pushed out a game in less than a day. Now, less than a year later, Crystalshire has just under 6,000 members, a solid engine, a properly bridged selection of support software and is also spear-heading command-based scripting, something which will revolutionalise indy ORPG design. This all came about from a game which I spent _less than a day on._ Just think about that. Some people will spend up to 4 years on failed projects. That's 1,456 days. They spent 145,600% of the time I spent on Crystalshire and never release anything.

At the end of the day you need to listen to who you want to listen to. I'll give you advice when you need it, but nothing compares to learning from your own mistakes.

**tl;dr:** Most people can't see the wood because of the trees. Don't be one of those people.
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Robin Newbie

Robin

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@Aeirex:

> I agree with you Robin, but you need to find that good medium not just slop something out in 24 hours. I've had this problem for years and still a polishing perfectionist, but the experience stays with you and next time you'll do it much faster.

All of which means fuck all if you're never going to release anything.

Get your game out as fast as possible. You can improve it once it's out.

You're not some big company. You're not charging money. The beauty of indy development is the ability to release a proof of concept and have your community help you build it in to a game.

As I said before, I've yet to see a single successful game on Eclipse which didn't follow this principle. You can argue this point till you're blue in the face, but anyone who argues with results is as short sighted as they are conceited.

Of course the fact that you're still hanging around a forum which you've been banned from countless times shows just how useless your opinions are on this matter.
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Jacquelinett Newbie

Jacquelinett

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Im not talking about money. I dont want money. In fact, even if i release a game now, I still cant make money because I have no credit card.

But yeah, I get your point. Game Programming come from passion and enjoyment. DOnt do it because you want money and fame. Point taken.

I realized what an idiot i was. Ever since i was a kid, I had always dreamed about making a game as good as final fantasy. And that dream had consumed my mind. I gone crazy over it, sometime I spend 3 hours just to learn programming, but i cant focus, I always wanted to go ahead, i always wanted to make a game as good as FF. And from 3 hours learning programming, I learned nothing and was mad, angry at myself.

But now I see what I did wrong. And to fix my mistake, I did what Godlord told me to do: I downloaded C++ bloodshed and started learning C++ along with SDL using Lazy foo production tutorial. Im going at a slow, easy pace, and I realized how much I really want to do this. It's all about passion and enjoyment. Dont do it if you dont like it. I got it. I really got it now. Thank you.

Thank you. I learned my lesson, NOW LET GO AND LEARN SOME C++ >:D SDL + C++ ENGINE FUTURE AWAITING >:D

Sincerely, no im not copying Rithy,
Yumi :)
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Robin Newbie

Robin

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@Composer:

> I realized what an idiot i was. Ever since i was a kid, I had always dreamed about making a game as good as final fantasy. And that dream had consumed my mind. I gone crazy over it, sometime I spend 3 hours just to learn programming, but i cant focus, I always wanted to go ahead, i always wanted to make a game as good as FF. And from 3 hours learning programming, I learned nothing and was mad, angry at myself.

That dream is what drives all of us. You need to go through natural progression, however. You need to learn each individual part of game design. That takes years. Hell, after 8 years of programming this shit I can only now create the more complicated systems which I've been wanting to do since I was 12 years old.
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