Community attitude and noobs

[DrNova]

I have seen SO much negative/rude behavior towards noobs lately.  And personally I think its ridiculous.

Sure, some people are just clueless, others not to bright, and/but most of them are just totally new to Eclipse, and maybe any mmo engine.
These flames and rude comments really need to stop.

i wont go into names, but I've seen a ton of it lately, and I admit on occasion I have been the jerk as well.

Mods need to crackdown on this rude behavior, and do their jobs.

Community is turning into an unfreindly place for anyone who isnt already a knowledgeable user of Eclipse.  Its not somewhere I would want to come as a noob.

People need to realize that these new people are simply that, new.
If you arent going to be constructive, and I mean that in a non asshole way, then just shut up and dont say anything.
Community needs to stop acting like noobs ourselves with our piss poor attitude.

If your going to post in a noob topic, then be mature, helpful and guiding.
If they simply dont get it, then dont post.

If your just going to post and say "read the stickies/tuts noob" then dont post.

Post links to tuts, encourage, and actually HELP them get to know what the hell they are doing, instead of being pricks so they end up stuck at noob and eventually leave.

Mods, do your jobs, and everyone else, quit being assholes.

[Drummerpete]

I somewhat agree, but I seem to see the same things over and over again, which is answered all over the forum, people are just being lazy and not reading the stickies which would actually SAVE time.

[DrNova]

I dont think people are being lazy.  Its just that information is scattered EVERYWHERE on the forums.
There needs to be another thread added, right at top, like "New Users Read Here" or "New User Guides" or something.

And regardless, the way new people are being treated is just rude.  Asshole comments and unhelpfulness, instead of being mature and polite and helping them find the awnsers, so they actually move past noob.

A noob is by default clueless, and will take time to learn even the most basic of aspects that we all know easily.  That, and they have no idea, and understandably dont want to cruise all over this huge forum looking for awnsers.

We need one dedicated thread for new people, with sub boards inside.
Like a Scripting sub board, basic startup sub board, engine functions sub board, editing sub board, ect, each with stickies of well written tut's, and a question thread in each for that specific area.

And people need to stop being assholes.
If you are irritated by it, DONT READ A THREAD TITLE "OMG HELP ME", comman sense…
If you wont help, dont bother.

[Belmont]

I know what you mean, but nothings ever going to change, even though you are right, this has been discussed before

its alot more satisfying to help someone than to just shoot them down, try it peoples

[xeross]

We should indeed make a topic with links to all usefull guides.
well a part of the new people don't read anything it's
They Download->They Start->They Think WTF How Does It Work->Spam Forums with already answered questions.
That's what pisses of most of the people here

[gaming ace]

I agree, we should have a Beginner's Section on the forums with tips on getting started, tutorials on everything there is to it, examples of great games, guides for planning projects out, sadscript scripting examples, etc. This might help out a lot  ;)

[Kusy]

Fuck you - there's no fucking bad behaviour here. jk.
Well yeah - a begginer section is a great idea.

[Admiral Refuge]

Are you talking about **noobs** or **newbs**???

Because people shouldn't be rude to newbs at all, but as far as noobs go, they don't deserve help and stuff -_-

_Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noob
Newb vs. noob

Newb and noob may have somewhat different connotations. Newbs are simply newcomers—noob and n00b, on the other hand, generally means someone who is obnoxious, annoying, or **breaks the rules**; whether they are actual newcomers or not is mostly irrelevant. Therefore, a noob may be someone who has been around for a long time but still engages in behavior that he or she should have learned is unacceptable. Noobs are generally confident in what they are doing, but in reality are annoying others. "Newb" is not necessarily an insulting word, but "noob" usually is. If someone makes an unintelligent comment on a forum or asks a question that even other newbies could answer then it is said that they are making a "noobish" comment or asking a "noobish" question. However, due to the evolution of language, the term noob or 'n00b' is now used both ways and newb is used only infrequently.
More experienced players are often encouraged to give friendly advice and help to newbs, to support them as they tackle the learning curve of whichever game they're playing, and some game servers are set up explicitly for the purpose of allowing newbs to gain experience before entering more competitive environments.
"Noob" can also mean a person who claims to know a lot about a subject but in truth does not. It was first used in hacker groups on the BBS chat systems in the 1980s. It is important to note that noob and newb are not necessarily interchangeable. Many times the term noob or n00b will be used by veterans to degrade a user for their lack of knowledge, or claims to know more than they truly do._

[Marsh]

Either way you should be polite to both. There is no excuse to flaming. If they are being a idiot or deserve it they still shouldn't be flamed. Leave it to the mods. I agree with drnova 100% on this one.

[Niko]

I second that motion

[Guest]

Why's everyone agreeing with this bullshit?

I completely agree with what Admiral Refuge is saying. Noobs don't deserve kindness. But newbs do.
Seriously. We have a right to hate idiotic noobs. They're not going to become active members of the community anyway. I mean, take saddhamza for example. He just asked a bunch of stupid questions then left because it "didn't work out for him". In my opinion, and probably in many others', there are too many of fags with this attitude toward eclipse.

My point about noobs v. newbs

> 1TZ T00 L1M1T3D!!11

> I C4NT W0RK 3CL1PS3!

> how i make admin access?!!?11

Too many of those noobs asking those kind of questions. Whereas **newbs** ask questions like below:

> Hey, sorry if this is a stupid question, but you can add in poisoned weapons into Eclipse with scripting, right? I mean sadscript. And just to make sure: sadscript is in that main.txt thing, right? Thanks for your help guys. :)

Things like that. Now, which would you be more inclined to help? I certainly would help the second example, and just bash and flame the first three.

DrNova, your argument is extremely biased.

> Mods need to crackdown on this rude behavior, and do their jobs. You think they haven't? Look what happened to godlord and I.
>
> Community is turning into an unfreindly place for anyone who isnt already a knowledgeable user of Eclipse.  Its not somewhere I would want to come as a noob. It's always been this way toward noobs. If you choose to be an ignorant fool and don't check the tutorials and stickies, of course people are going to flame you.
>
> If your going to post in a noob topic, then be mature, helpful and guiding.
> If they simply dont get it, then dont post.We are mature. Mature to those who ask reasonable questions.
>
> If your just going to post and say "read the stickies/tuts noob" then dont post. Why? The stickies/tuts are there for a reason.
>
> Post links to tuts, encourage, and actually HELP them get to know what the hell they are doing, instead of being pricks so they end up stuck at noob and eventually leave.They're going to leave anyway. Also, we do help them, although reluctantly.

Okay, back. Time to add some more to my argument:

Alright, you're bit*hing about all this.

> Community is turning into an unfreindly place for anyone who isnt already a knowledgeable user of Eclipse

Oh, come on.

I was eleven when I came to eclipse.
I had no knowledge of programming or eclipse whatsoever.
I read the tutorials.
I figured it out by myself.
Sure, I asked for some help, but it was with stuff that wasn't covered in the tutorials. (mind you, there were much less tutorials back when I joined than there are now. Yet I figured it out. No, I'm not asking for pity here, merely comparing my case to these noobs's)
In conclusion with this example: if you're not a knowledgeable user of eclipse, then you can be sure, 100%, not a doubt in hell that you won't be able to figure it out for yourself.

If you can't, then that's where the forums come in. Here are the logical steps for question asking:
1)Search button. Good old search button. If nothing turns up, try the tutorials section.
2)90% of questions would have been figured out by this point. If your question is one of the 10%(all the noobs are asking questions that are classified in the 90%, which brings me back to my first point), **then** you post a question.

The way I see, it there are two logical explanations to why noobs these days won't read the necessary tutorials.
1)They're mental retards. (Doubtful, if they were, parents probably wouldn't let them onto the computer in this case)
2)They're lazy idiots who can't use common sense to figure things out.

Also, there's a ridiculous overflow of questions lately. I swear I saw about a dozen questions about the admin access thing. The first person to ask that question had a right to ask it, as there were no FAQs or tutorials about 2.7 at that point. But the 11 others after that had no excuse. They could have easily just looked at the first person's question, read the answer, and not post their question!

[Khachaturian]

i have to agree with Hail on some parts,
altho i have no idea how you psted this lol, seeing your always on WS
jk

true, waht he said newbs, vs noobs, works,
but it doesnt matter how 'messed' up think his arguement is,
the point is clear

'be nice'

[Guest]

I'll be nice to newbs who ask reasonable questions, thank you very much.
And lol, bone, you always have to open up with a joke. XD

[Khachaturian]

idunno, even if they are being comptplete morons, it doesnt hurt to be nice?
or not post at all lol

'Y U HEK!?!!111'

[Niko]

I think your wrong totally, actually I KNOW your wrong totally. See if you flame, or be rude to a noob because of the way his grammar is, or if he acts some what idiotic, then you are just as idiotic and noobie as the poster. Your not making anything better, or maybe changing the users way of posting topics by being extremeley harsh. Your just pissing him off. So if you dislike the way they act then change the way you do, if not leave because if this type of attitude is seen regularly from one user he WILL be banned. So think twice about how you act, even if it is not your particularly favorite way of acting.

[Guest]

You're failing to see my point.
You're arguing about the moral wrong about this, whereas I'm arguing about the practical, logical reason behind it. Stop making your arguments so one-sided.

[Niko]

Its not an argument. I'm telling you guys (everyone, not you) that if anyone is seen continuously arguing, flaming, being extremeley harsh twords or just acting like a dick to a new member who is asking a question or some sort you will be punished.

[DrNova]

Your being ridiculous Hail.
If you see a topic like that, DONT POST IN IT.

Dont be a moron and sink to their level.

Plain and simple.
You dont like the post, close it and move on to another thread.
Your bashing doesnt help in any way at all.
It doesnt teach them anything, it doesnt resolve anything, all it does is vents your irritation and make you look like a jackass.

As far as you and godlord, getting an attitude in responce to a cocky statement is not "professional" modding.

Regardless, the fact stands.  You dont HAVE to post some asshole, juvinile comment just because you think the person is an idiot.

Go read some other thread instead.
Logic, no?

[Guest]

Sigh. So you can't think of any other arguments, so you just say I'm an idiot for this? I may remind you that I **do** help these noobs, even if reluctantly.

It's such a drastic change coming from Maple to here. To a community that hates idiots and noobs(for good reason) to a community that endorses them and loves them.

I don't see why. That was one thing I actually like about MS. People hated noobs, because they're incomprehensible, idiotic, stupid, retarded… noobs. I don't see why you love them so much.

I doubt you even read my whole argument and you're just looking for some reason to criticize my ways.

You know what, forget it.

I'm done.

[Marsh]

I see you havent changed since you left and came back/

[Anna Comnena]

All I got to say is your comment "Moderators, do your jobs" pisses me off. DrNova, as an ex-mod yourself who quit because you couldn't take it anymore, I'd expect more understanding.

My first few months as moderator back in '07, I felt obligated to help new members in any ways possible. So I was one of the few at that time who answered in the Questions forum on a daily basis. This was for atleast 3 months if not more. Answering the same questions every day, and sometimes multiple times a day, because someone can not read a post 3 lines down, is nothing short of soul-draining.

And maybe a month ago tops, I locked almost every thread for THREE PAGES in the Recruitment Center because none of them read the sticky posts in that very forum. Newbies are not being lazy? Yes they are. However it is true your point that information is scattered around the Eclipse boards, this is still an easier forum to browse through than most.

So yeah I do my job, I warn for spam, flaming, and generally rule breaking in the course of my usual lurking and posting, and I will reply to Reported posts. If people want the community to be better, then they need to start using some sense when they post, newbies and flamers alike.

[renzo]

@DrNova:

> Mods need to crackdown on this rude behavior, and do their jobs.
>
> Mods, do your jobs, and everyone else, quit being assholes.

have you counted how many boards there are?
the only thing we can do is wait for someone to be reported and then do something about those topics
and most of the mods cant even be at the forums for like 10-18 hours( like myself) due to sleeping/chores/work, we just dont have enough people to be on all the time to deal with problems

@DrNova:

> We need one dedicated thread for new people, with sub boards inside.
> Like a Scripting sub board, basic startup sub board, engine functions sub board, editing sub board, ect, each with stickies of well written tut's, and a question thread in each for that specific area.

we could make one, but it wouldnt help at all since
1\. they wouldnt go there or
2\. they would post their questions in it asking the same things the stickies in the boards would answer
they arent interested in looking or reading, they want someone to instruct them on how to get started, they want to have contact with a real person to help them

@DrNova:

> And people need to stop being assholes.
> If you are irritated by it, DONT READ A THREAD TITLE "OMG HELP ME", comman sense…
> If you wont help, dont bother.

i do agree with this though, it would be a waste of time for the noob and the flamer :P

i dont have any problems with the newbs that type leet speak since they will learn to type normally in time after seeing how everybody else types, or when they have bad grammar, since english might not very well be their first language so they cant help but have bad grammar

but i dont go to the question board anymore since its all just the same question being asked over and over and over, and i would suggest that people that arent interested in helping do the same

just my 2 cents in the situation

[DrNova]

@ Anna-My comment, "mods do your jobs" was only pointed at the rude behavior that people are exhibiting towards new people, and how it never seemed to be addressed, nothing else.

[Zananok]

DrNova, i 100% agrees with you… but i believe was forgotten to mention about the non newbs or non noobs being flamed for no apparently reason... i was 'victim' (lol, weird word to say) myself not long ago of being flamed only because 'they' disagreed with me on a point... i even offered to open a test server to prove it but 'they' ignored me.. anyway i was safe by a mod (Thank You)
ps. i did not specify parts of my reply so it doesn't bring it up again and also because thats off-topic.

From: Zananok

[Niko]

Well we are all glad you survived being victim to a cruel spamming.