Is this really worth 60 bucks?

[Helladen]

> I agree on most parts about new language etc, but i could not, nor have got, the time to learn C++ (although i would love to!).

We should just make our own language based on Visual Basic 6, but it exports to a better base level code like Jabaco. This would mean, with all the work we have done so far over the past 10 years can be saved and improvised in the process. But maybe I'm just crazy and need to move on.

[lel]

"Yes because everyone totally wants to fix up a custom engine someone else started and surely doesn't want to use the new engine's source because it has most of the fixes there have been found  ;)"

Sounds like you don't want to do the work yourself. I mean honestly, there is no difference from the ofc. 4.x and any custom engine aside from some other persons work. So really you are just crying about not having someone do work for you. "fixes?" I just read how 4.x removed directional blocking to improve path-finding… Honestly doesn't sound like a fix to me. I mean really it has nothing to do with fixes at all, and we all know this. If you want to talk about fixes, I could go on all day buddy. I'll just end with saying I have not continued to test 4.x because I have not been asked to. Should I test 4.x any longer I am positive  I'd find some pretty interesting bug that would need to be fixed.

Now the difference about crying about something and telling you all to shut up is probably something you have not learned from your parents yet. I'll try to educate you... When a little child cries about not getting something he/she wants = crying. When his parents tell him it's not happening = shut up.  It was so nice having this conversation with you. Good bye now.

[dariken]

Alls I know is that EO needs a more up-to-date language above anything else.   I want EO to succeed, I really do but unless it get's a more up to date and better supported language I doubt that it will….

[BeNjO]

lel: how are we "crying" we were asked if its worth it, we said no because of the fact you do not have 100% control over your own game. Stop been a douche

[Growlith1223]

Lel, you seem to not know what i mean. let me elaborate :D

What i have said about fixes is a lot of the DX8 fixes, Event system was fixed, and a ton more.

"directional blocking was removed" never said it was a fix ;D plus the fact that my response was done **BEFORE** they stated it was removed.

"crying" you complain about us "crying" yet when you tell us to shut up, it's not complaining? :P im confused by your logic. please elaborate oh wise man.

"seems like you don't want to do the work yourself" im not working on fixing an engine in an outdated language. i know i know, the irony, BUT, i can say i would still like it open source as an option if i ever decided to work on it. I would do the work if i was that determined to fix up an engine someone else created.

on another note, i think it should be pretty clear as to why we want the source. like almost everyone has said, there shouldn't be anything to be scared of. and another, if they would have lowered the price and add more freedom with the engine, none of this probably would have happened. but that's just me crying apparently! :D

Sincerely,

Growlith1223

[jcsnider]

For the record. Removing directional blocking is NOT a fix for anything. With that said it majorly conflicted with path finding of players and npcs (even in 3.0) and it was determined that for best performance it be removed instead of adding a massive processing hit to a already slow process.

Now up until recent this has been a pretty good topic with some good ideas/thoughts going around. Please stay on topic and avoid personal attacks against other members.

[Link]

Do not let the topic become a personal discussion, keep the flaming to a minimal, as entertaining as it may be. Feel free the pm your personal thoughts to one another smexys (;

My input: Is it worth 60? That's for you to decide, do not let anyone else be your mind bruh, you'll mostly get biased opinions anyway or worthless side comments, buy the engine..or wait for improvements to be made, or have someone literally program a custom engine with your specifications. To some it's worth it, to others not so much. Depends on your skills, time, motivation and many other key factors which could make opinions vary in difference.

- Deathikins <3

[lel]

To be on topic go ask a programmer to add a pet system like JC's (without ripping his off)  to any engine here. Check to see if it;s as stable. See how much that will cost. I mean honestly if you're a programmer saying "That wouldn't cost anywhere near 60$" Then I guess it wouldn't really be that big of a deal for you to release a version like that without charge to prove your point. Then add the other things that are unique, like zones, mailbox with mailing items, ecta. Things that are done the right way, without complaining, and originally. Now we are talking about an engine that is worth 60$ So yes. 

Also I think it wise to mention about the direction blocking statement and path finding thing I mentioned earlier, I was only pointing out there is plenty room for improvement. If one wanted a better engine, I would start with things LIKE THAT, and fix those KINDS OF THINGS. Doing those things shows that no engine is better than another, they are just different.

[Seb]

> To be on topic go ask a programmer to add a pet system like JC's (without ripping his off)  to any engine here. Check to see if it;s as stable. See how much that will cost. I mean honestly if you're a programmer saying "That wouldn't cost anywhere near 60$" Then I guess it wouldn't really be that big of a deal for you to release a version like that without charge to prove your point. Then add the other things that are unique, like zones, mailbox with mailing items, ecta. Things that are done the right way, without complaining, and originally. Now we are talking about an engine that is worth 60$ So yes. 
>
> Also I think it wise to mention about the direction blocking statement and path finding thing I mentioned earlier, I was only pointing out there is plenty room for improvement. If one wanted a better engine, I would start with things LIKE THAT, and fix those KINDS OF THINGS. Doing those things shows that no engine is better than another, they are just different.

you would still have the source if you paid a programmer to do it

[dariken]

As for me I think I'll wait until improvements are made.   EO isn't a horrible engine(alot better than xtremeworlds)but it just doesn't have what I need to make the type of mmo I want.   So here's to hoping npcs can eventually use spells.

[lel]

See I think the game you make depends on the abilities and energy you are willing to put into it. If you guys want to continue to argue that its not worth 60$ because it doesn't have the source, then I think I would argue that you don't need the source to make a game. You need the source to make a different engine. I would say I agree with you if you want to make an engine it is not worth 60$ if you want to make a game…. It's worth more than 60$ ( if you can't make the game you want) then maybe you need a different engine. Then I agree again, it's not worth it for you.I simply would just make the 60$ dollar engine into a game worth 60$. It's got to be easier than making a game worth a 500$ engine I spent on mine =/   

The real problem is that 4.x just came way too late... we needed 4.x when 2.2 was out. Now V sounds like it should be right on time... I don't know when it will be done thou.  *shrugs*

[Murdoc]

Things are worth what people will pay for them. I see both sides. On one hand, it may be closed source but it's not being abandoned like many custom versions have over the years. As a result, the features that have been added are stable. On the other hand, some programmers feel alienated from the the site, which might be why quite a few members have left or intentionally got themselves banned. But, if you're only reason for being on the site is to show-off your skills or whine because someone is charging for their hard work, then I wonder how much you even care about the community as a whole. It's been mentioned already, but there have been several programmers and artists which have charged for their work so this is nothing new.

In the end, it benefits programmers who are involved in it's development and results in a sound system without many bugs. And the programmers who are not involved can benefit by developing equally great platforms in other languages, so that the site has variety and acquires new members that prefer these other languages for coding. If they are open-source then there's the upside of being able to make your title unique (provided your development team has a programmer). Eclipse will always have open-source development platforms, even if they're not perfect. So I don't understand why there is any argument surrounding this topic. I think we just have to accept that part (I emphasize part) of the site is now dedicated to providing a stable engine to the community while also providing monetary income for those involved in it's progress.

The "us and them" attitude is getting old.

[JayRay]

I've had a chance to review this product on the Silver version, something I want to do extesnively before investing in a Gold edition, and well, there's a reason I'm saying investing.

Let's look at the top of the line 3d MMORPG software engines. $1500 dolalrs for professional licenses, and more. Here we have a 2d MMORPG game where we pretty much have full graphical control to affect the game, allowing our players (customers in some cases) to thrive in a game where they don't need to have the best graphics card ever. While I do see this as a benchmark work in progress, due to other cross-platform engines in the works, i would pay $60 for this if I saw teh ability to make my game unique.

What I propse to the guys from eclipse is this. Create a software taht allows a player to create test scripts. Your software scans it for any security vulnerabilities, or even as a company side proofread. Once approved, this script package file becomes available, free of course to the providers, and then depending on the agreement between the scripter and the company, can either be free or a remium script package that is added in bits and pieces to anyone else who needs them. These micro-payment script package offerings may not mesh with each other, which is why certain brand name compatibilities would have to be kept in mind, just like when we get a script for say RPG Maker that doesn't mesh with this other script. I think in all of this, the community offerings become more serious, allowing a community to add quality to a game before a quantity of what could be substandard Eclipse scripts starts running the gambit.

And the reason i say investment? You're not buying a system, you're investing in a resource,s ame as you would invest in Photoshop or 3ds max or Daz, or would invest in your sounds, your voice actors, your music, whatever you invest in to create your marketable game. $60 dollars is less than my piano guy charges for one music score, and can buy me about 12 minutes of fivver.com voice acting….  Invest once, and become an entreprenuer... Buy and become a consumer, it's your choice.

[RyokuHasu]

Well Mr JayRay that's a great way to look at it, if you are brand new to the community.

Eclipse Origins used to be more than just a game engine, it represented a hub where noobs and experienced coders alike could come together, share ideas, learn the basics of coding, and come up with new tutorials and features almost daily! All in a FREE and mostly friendly community. Coming back after being gone for a LONG time I come back to a baron wasteland where the river of programmatic creativity now has a toll bridge. 

If they want to sell it they should take a hint from robin, have an OPEN SOURCE and FREE one with less features so that we can still jump in the river of awesomeness that is programming, and one that has more advanced features that you would pay a small premium to own the source and use. 

Now I personally don't know if this is worth $60, that might just be greed being larger than common sense about profit. Like mentioned before I think  if the price was lowered we would see a large increase in volume of sale. Depending on the new price Price vs Demand will dictate the ratio of sales to profit over time. There is the DEMAND for it, but the price is above the majority the budgets of people who want it.

Lastly, there is no reason there should be a price on a something made with an old, dying, and outdated, not to mention platform specific, language. $60 bucks for a engine in VB6, not gonna happen, $60 for a cross platform that uses a more object oriented design, OH HELLZ YESH!

[deroth888]

To me, it seems like this topic got a bit off track. Back to the main topic "is this really worth 60 bucks?" , not yet, but it easily could be. Now dispite other 2d mmo engines which offer a lot of great features for free, eclipse is the grandaddy, and already is on the road to being the top 2d MMORPG engine. In my opinion, here is what EO needs to be worth $60:

1\. Projectiles

2\. Scripting

3\. Simple Particle System

4\. Feature Plug-in System (the ability to simply write plugins for all the different features people want. Sell each plug-in for $0 - $5, and make alot more money. ie: a mount system, or a crafting system, a guild system, each sold seperately. Just pay, download, click install, and your good to go.

5\. Finish all of the documentation!

To me those 5 things would make it worth $60, concidering there are 3d engines that you can get for $0 - $50\. Otherwise, I would suggest charging no more that $20.

[darkkitten]

You should look at Angel Script, Lua is ok though :)