RELEASE DATE for Eclipse Evolution 3.0/Solar Eclipse/Java Eclipse!

[saadhamza]

same here. and good work ZM. tho i do agree with godlord, i prefer c++, XD. but i think thats just a personnaly choice lolz

[Homicidal Monkey]

It is actually,
both languages were derived from C and have probably the same capabilities (disregarding speed and compatibility)

[Guest]

@Zetta:

> both languages were derived from C and have probably the same capabilities (disregarding speed and compatibility)

Those seem like two pretty big features to me ;/

[Homicidal Monkey]

actually, those figures are extremely thin in differences now.
http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html

that test used gcc compared to the current jvm. By the looks of it, standard methods run significantly faster in java than C++. However, Java ran at about 50% the speed of C++ when it came to OpenGL.

How does this compare to VB?
VB runs an average of about 1/17th the speed of C++.

so really, when it comes to Java and C++, its 100% personal preference.

[Godlord]

@Zetta:

> actually, those figures are extremely thin in differences now.
> http://www.idiom.com/~zilla/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html
>
> that test used gcc compared to the current jvm. By the looks of it, standard methods run significantly faster in java than C++. However, Java ran at about 50% the speed of C++ when it came to OpenGL.
>
> How does this compare to VB?
> VB runs an average of about 1/17th the speed of C++.
>
> so really, when it comes to Java and C++, its 100% personal preference.

Do you even know what you're talking about? 50% is one over two (1/2). That means that if it was 3GHz virtually it would be 1.5GHz instead, that's a lot. It isn't personal preference, C++ is faster than Java and it will **always** be, you can never emulate 2GHz on a 1GHz processor, the same with Java. You'll have to interpret the bytecode, execute the instruction and get to the next instruction, which is obviously slow, because the code gets past at least two 'processors'. I've had enough of your propagandistic nonsense. If Java was really faster, it would be used by big companies. The benchmarking is also corrupt, if you write an application in two languages it should be exactly the same, that means that you'd have to disable features like garbage collection, because such features aren't part of the language itself, it's part of a 'standard' library.

Java programmers always seem to think they can break the speed of light, whilst their applets allow people to get a cup of coffee before they're loaded.

You're promoting stuff towards an audience who don't know or understand most of the terminology you use, and yet you always seem to use this smart talk. For what reason? Frightened that your engine isn't that good after all? If you want to promote an engine, talk about its features, not about the language it uses. Because you always spawn the same discussion over and over again, perhaps indirectly.

Regards,
  Godlord.

[Homicidal Monkey]

Im sorry, but your kind-of doing the same thing ;)

actually, Ive read two sides to the conversation. C++ usually compares to an old JVM or uses only fully-optimised. While on Java end, Java usually pulls out the forced pointer usage which pointers end up executing faster.

Really, does anyone need to use all 3ghz? No… Chances are Im never gonna build an application in any language that uses all the processing power Ive got.

[Godlord]

@Zetta:

> Im sorry, but your kind-of doing the same thing ;P

I'm not, I only _defend_ C/C++ and I don't use smart talk nobody understands to promote my products nor do I use the 'features' of a language to do so, I simply tell people what's inside, big difference there. I don't always spawn a discussion about which language is faster, because there's no reason for me to. Until you started SE, this forum did not have any discussions about that after all, maybe one or two. Looks like pure propaganda to me.

The only thing I've seen you doing so far is telling everybody how fast Java is and how much better it is than C/C++ while nobody asked for it. Not to mention, I haven't seen much good coming from you, especially in the veteran board, where you were abusing your powers. You warned people because you didn't include a download link and they asked for it. That you don't support something doesn't mean you've got to warn them, that's complete nonsense.

Regards,
  Godlord.

[Homicidal Monkey]

@Godlord:
if you want, Ill just take a break for a while. Ive gotta finish up a few classes so why not put more effort into them?

[Godlord]

> actually, Ive read two sides to the conversation. C++ usually compares to an old JVM or uses only fully-optimised. While on Java end, Java usually pulls out the forced pointer usage which pointers end up executing faster.

Which still means that the benchmarking was done improperly.

> Really, does anyone need to use all 3ghz? No… Chances are Im never gonna build an application in any language that uses all the processing power Ive got.

You didn't get the point, which means you don't know what you're talking about, especially not as for OpenGL. I'm not talking about the processor but about the speed of the graphics, which you didn't get at first, during the topic and now.

Regards,
  Godlord.

[Homicidal Monkey]

@Godlord: you dont need graphics faster than 60fps

your eyes see at 30fps, we double that value to generate a fluid animation. Generally, monitors default at 60 updates per second. Going any faster is just overkill.

[Godlord]

@Zetta:

> @Godlord: you dont need graphics faster than 60fps
>
> your eyes see at 30fps, we double that value to generate a fluid animation. Generally, monitors default at 60 updates per second. Going any faster is just overkill.

You still don't get it and you lack experiences with delta time as it seems.

Regards,
  Godlord.

[Guest]

Modern monitors refresh at 75 usually now, at least if you have a new flat screen, which most people do. I wouldn't say to quit tho HM. But if you do, me and Godlord will still develop E++ and your welcome to release SE1.0 too when you've gotten some time again.

[mrmiguu]

To be honest, it seems Eclipse hasn't gone anywhere since EE 2.7\. All this talk about 3.0 and all I have to actually see is a screen with some RMXP characters (rendered poorly). If Goddie and Crank can **release** a moderately working version of Eclipse in C++, then that would be enough for me. I don't think SE will be coming out any time soon to be honest and I think it would take a lot of dedication to release any engine in a new language prior to VB6\. As long as Eclipse gets a **release**, I am sure people won't complain. It's been waaay too long and it seems HM is trying to stall as much as possible. I am not on any sides here, all I want to see is Eclipse to maintain forward progression.

- MrMiguu

[Homicidal Monkey]

@MrMiguuâ„¢:

> It's been waaay too long and it seems HM is trying to stall as much as possible.

Its about standards.
Ive gotta match:
-Java's standards
-EE1.0's stability
-Eclipse's Standards

[Rathearia]

Wow Godlord you kinda went bitch mode on Z-HM, although im sure there are things going on I have no clue about. And big companies do use java. I prefer c++ myself though.

:azn: Can't wait for my warn or ban.

[Godlord]

@Rathearia:

> Wow Godlord you kinda went Female Dog mode on Z-HM, although im sure there are things going on I have no clue about. And big companies do use java. I prefer c++ myself though.
>
> :azn: Can't wait for my warn or ban.

Not as much as C++, otherwise half of the software you use daily would be written in Java, which is exactly my point.

@Zetta:

> Its about standards.
> Ive gotta match:
> -Java's standards
> -EE1.0's stability
> -Eclipse's Standards

A programmer writes conform to a standard, he/she doesn't write the code and then makes it conform afterwards. That's only the case for developer group switches and standard reforming.

Regards,
  Godlord.

[Homicidal Monkey]

@Godlord:

> Not as much as C++, otherwise half of the software you use daily would be written in Java, which is exactly my point.

40-30 C/C++ to Java. If you know both, you got a job in RL.

@Godlord:

> A programmer writes conform to a standard, he/she doesn't write the code and then makes it conform afterwards. That's only the case for developer group switches and standard reforming.
> Regards,
>   Godlord.

1) I actually write test classes for new features first. Usually this is static methods
2) I implement those methods in SE and test
3) I break down the code into dynamic methods and test in SE
4) I handle any possible errors
5) I break the classes down into packages
6) I write 1 paragraph minimum documentation on the class's function
7) I write 1 line per method call documentation

It doesnt meet specifications until step 7 which might occur much later. I usually write documentation in Starbucks between classes.

[saadhamza]

@Godlord:

> I'm not, I only _defend_ C/C++ and I don't use smart talk nobody understands to promote my products

well i understood at least HALF of it XD.

not that ive used java , or that im very good at c++, but c++ is useally talked about for its speed, while java is known for like a "bigger" network or something like that. im not exactly sure tho XD. heres a link to a comparision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Java_and_C%2B%2B

and, i just want to say… this is what happens when 2 1337 coders go at each other when they are both making engines that almost exactly the same and the opposite in there own way XD. well, i support u both, so go for it, and stop arguing please.

[Homicidal Monkey]

@{TQA}:

> well i understood at least HALF of it XD.
>
> not that ive used java , or that im very good at c++, but c++ is useally talked about for its speed, while java is known for like a "bigger" network or something like that. im not exactly sure tho XD. heres a link to a comparision.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Java_and_C%2B%2B
>
> and, i just want to say… this is what happens when 2 1337 coders go at each other when they are both making engines that almost exactly the same and the opposite in there own way XD. well, i support u both, so go for it, and stop arguing please.

um, we actually contact each other to develop a standard system for Eclipse. Generally, all engines that meet this standards will be compatible when it comes to loading/saving maps, items, npcs, etc.

[saadhamza]

oh ok. Good Work. ^.^

[Darkonever]

Percentage status of whole project will give you a little knowledge an how far the SE1/EE3 is.
Way better will be Percentage stage of major parts of project ( for example; sound, Graphic, Server, Client, Scripting ec. or similar). This will give you a better answer on how far the project realy is and how soon you can expect it. But that's just my opinion ;)

[Homicidal Monkey]

SE passed all of the Software Metrics tests except for **Macabe Cyclomatic Complexity** which scored a 21.

Graphics: stable
Server: stable
Client: Stable
Scripting: Completed/stable
Sound: Completed/stable (will probably offer OpenAL alternative)

[Mr. Bob Firefarter]

I have absolutely NO idea what that is. :cry:

[Admiral Refuge]

@DNA:

> I have absolutely NO idea what that is. :cry:

[**here ya go**](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=McCabe%27s+Cyclomatic+Complexity)

[6bitmmo]

well Eclipse team should stop telling us that the next vision is coming out and instead keep it a secret than thare is no stress and thay can work as thay wish with out needing any BS post of "when is it coming" I program in binary and my work takes years yet i dont tell any one im working on it untell its out