My 2 cents on hireing a programer

[lel]

I wanted to offer some helpful advice and suggestions to those new to hiring a person on Eclipse.
(For those lacking time to learn VB6 or just in a hurry to make your game.)

Well I have had the pleasure of working with and paying a few programers now.
It all started  on RPG Maker XP. I hired a guy named Mr,MO. (He made a summoning spell, and an extra bar, and some projectile thing with his (back then) well known ABS system.
Sadly I don't think Mo is here on these forums, so I had to look for someone else! So thus, after finding this place my search for talent started all over again. 

When I first got here at Eclipse I was thinking all these questions about who would be right to hire?
How would I know if they did the job well enough? How can I tell if I'm getting ripped off? How will I know if they will even do the work at all? And so on!
I thought I'd give some advice to people looking to hire a programer.

Well before I start I realize I might not actually answer your question. So please feel free to ask any thoughtful question you'd like to ask me.

**1\.** Probably the biggest question if you are a newbie is
**"How can you tell if they did the work before you pay them? How do you know if your engine is not full of bugs?!"**

Do
Well they can send you a testable version of the engine, the lingo here is (without the source files.)
This protects their work and they can do something like change the max maps you can make to something utterly useless like 2\. Maybe there is a way to rip their work from the ".exe" files, but I think if you knew how to do that you'd probably know how to program yourself. So far I have not had a problem with this method.

Don't
Don't go with anyone that says something a long the lines of
"I'll do the work and tell you when its done, then you send payment and then I'll send you a link to the files." Hold on! What?…... No thanks.... can you send me a testable file without the source files please? So I can confirm the work is done the way I like?

**2\. What happens when I find bugs?**
Do
Do find a programer that tells you he/she fixes bugs for free.
This should be standard… Its just asking them to do their job correctly. No one should be paid for work that is incorrectly done.

Don't
Don't work with a programer that tells you he or she charges to fix their own mistakes,bug, or glitches. Ok I can understand if they would charge to fix a bug not related to their work, but otherwise steer clear guys/gals.

**3\. Communication…
This goes a long way.... Before you start having them work for you,make sure of a few things....**

Do Do you have enough time work on my project? Do you have any big plans coming up with in the next couple of days to a week? Are you busy? Do you see anything coming up? These are some questions you should ask your programer before asking them to work for you. If you don't feel you are not going to have your work completed with in an acceptable time, get back with them when they are not as busy. Work with someone friendly, and that gives suggestions, and warnings about the changes you may not like in your work.

Don't
Don't work with someone that won't give you a "lol" or "jajaja" or "hahaha" or anything of the sort…
Seriously, if you feel you are working with someone with no personality, move on to someone else... Hey....how long does it take to get on the internet and send someone a message? Ok... right a couple of minutes... So unless someone is really hurt or dead, there is no reason they can't spend  a couple of minutes to tell you something came up, right? If you are waiting longer then you'd like just to hear about how your engine is going then move on to another programer. When the work is done from the other programer, and its been a whole week later, don't be surprised when you see a message from the first person saying "hey something came up, sorry." lol

**4\. How much should a I pay?**
You went to the tutorial section and you thought you'd add  DJMaxus's  NPC spells, and why not add
Lightning's Pet system too?!! Well…...You been staring at the Computer screen for 6 hours and you still don't know what compile means.... Or how to make a button in the first place...

Do Do pay fairly, Well if you simply want someone to just, and only add a "source tutorial" (i.e Pets, Quests, projectiles) This should seriously be like 5$USD a piece at tops! If you are paying 5$USD for each one, guess what? It better be bug free, right? Look….. use common sense guys and gals, if the tutorial you want is seriously just a few lines and needs no form work, you can do it yourself its not that hard. OR someone should or might even do that for you for free if you do not have VB6, just ask nicely.
If you want to have something done like say just simply be able to add HP to armor ( not via END) or be able to change the NPC's attack speed. Maybe a little more right? If you are lucky someone might even do this kind of thing for you for free, just be nice and polite about it. 

Want to add something original ( like for this time frame, weather system, making a weapon attack, darken the screen, and use a spell at the same time, then afterwards lighten the screen again) I'd pay some where around 10-15$ USD for these kinds of things.

Don't 
Don't let yourself feel Ripped off… Guys if you have a questionable quote. Programer says he wants 30 dollars for a pet system and a few little edits to it. Ask why its costing so much? Bring it up on here " Hey guys a programers said he is going to charge me 30$ for.......... Does this sound fair to you guys?" If someone says "I'd do it for x amount lower." See if they will take the job. If not they were most likely not telling the truth lol.... But mostly just use common sense.... You know what? Honestly I'd pay a pretty penny just for some honest and good programing work. 

**5\. Common sense **
Well obviously you wouldn't want to work with someone much more if you keep getting a testable file plagued with bugs over and over and over again. And you wouldn't want to work with someone that tells you its going to take two weeks to finish a job that should only take a few hours, like making a party chat or something of the sorts. Don't work with someone if they request more money from you mid-way in the the job, and you have not asked them to do any more then when they gave you a quote. Just use some common sense people…..

**My personal recommendations would be**

**Jcsnider-** He has the best pet system and he knows it. He charges a hefty 25$ USD for it, but its well worth the price. He has all the do's I listed above. Once he told me he wouldn't be able to do any work for me because of a game he wanted to play for a non-stop period of time. Instead of lying and saying "My grandma died, or I'm failing school." lol… He is funny and honestly, but I guess he is a little pricey (this just comes from people I talk to, but I personally think his prices are fine.) I find that he negotiates and he does packages deals.   

**Captain Wabbit**
Pretty good personality, he is nice and loads of fun as well. But something I can say about Cap here is he is a hard worker… Even thou he was busy with some things he still let me know he was working on my project and where it was going every couple of days, if not, once a day. I find Cap likes to negotiate his pricing but I think it would fall well under what I said above.   

**Robin**
I think you're only problem with this guy is his time to work for you. He may or may not have the time for you. But who better to work on your EO or CS:DE engine than the one who made it? I have never hired him, but he did offer to do some work for me once. He has offered the cheapest price then anyone I have talked to yet thou. Probably the one person out of all these people you wouldn't need proof of work before payment. But I'm sure he'd be fine with the (no source) idea. 

**Kibblez**
He has offered to do some simple work for me for free ( I'm not saying he would do free work for anyone that PM's him this very second " OMG lel said you did free work") He was polite, and honest.
He did do something for me, but since it wasn't completely everything I asked, he did it for free.
I never really made use of that request, but I thought he was worth mentioning.

**Aaron**
He has offered to do some cheap work for me, I can't say I had the chance to know his personality but I can say he was not a jerk or rude or anything. Very negotiable  prices, and is willing to show proof of work in probably anyway you'd ask.

[Justn]

+1 for captain wabbit he does good work for cheap and he does it fast and very well :P

[lel]

He has been a joy to work with. Sadly paypal hasn't been his best friend these past few days.

[evilbunnie]

Awww thanks guys, +1 to jcsnider

[lel]

@Cap, you earned it man.
@Justn, I didn't know you had programing work done. What work have you hired for?

[guzmanm]

Of all of the mentioned aboved, I've only worked with Jcsnider, and he's pretty damn good. I would recommend him to anyone who needs a programmer.

[evilbunnie]

@lel:

> @Cap, you earned it man.
> @Justn, I didn't know you had programing work done. What work have you hired for?

Weather system :)

[lel]

lol oh…. " I see what you did there."    -.^
Its a shame I was hoping for JC to add his two cents.

[Fuu]

You should add "Pick someone who knows how to spell "hiring".", or spell in general.
If your staff team can't spell things correctly, then it would probably harm the reputation of your game.

Oh, and Wabbit beats me in his basement.

[lel]

@Fuu:

> You should add "Pick someone who knows how to spell "hiring".", or spell in general.
> If your staff team can't spell things correctly, then it would probably harm the reputation of your game.
>
> Oh, and Wabbit beats me in his basement.

No, you're completely right! This might only matter to a person who cares about the reputation of their game thou. I know a person using EO only for close friends. He has not put his game up on these forums or even asked anyone here what they would think of his game or the ideas installed into his game.

[evilbunnie]

@Fuu:

> You should add "Pick someone who knows how to spell "hiring".", or spell in general.
> If your staff team can't spell things correctly, then it would probably harm the reputation of your game.
>
> Oh, and Wabbit beats me in his basement.

One day you're going to get slapped son, real hard and real fast. ;)

[Fuu]

@Captain:

> One day you're going to get slapped son, real hard and real fast. ;)

In your basement?

[evilbunnie]

@Fuu:

> In your basement?

Yes.

[azure]

@Captain:

> Yes.

Well to be truthful it's my basement, but Wabbit was in charge down there. Never leave artists in charge of anything, they just get paint on everything.

On topic: If don't know the basics of looking to pay people for work, then don't. Common sense is always your best friend.

[SawQuart]

@lel:

> No, you're completely right! This might only matter to a person who cares about the reputation of their game thou. I know a person using EO only for close friends. He has not put his game up on these forums or even asked anyone here what they would think of his game or the ideas installed into his game.

Look at the title of this thread… please, it's killing me.

[evilbunnie]

@Jungle:

> Look at the title of this thread… please, it's killing me.

Man up.

[Kittens]

All these people who can't spell for shit…. I wouldn't hire any of 'em

[evilbunnie]

@Kittens:

> All these people who can't spell for shit…. I wouldn't hire any of 'em

That's great. So you're not going to hire someone just because they don't use English as a first language? You ignorant, ignorant fucking fool. You forgot a full stop, by the way.

[Robin]

@Captain:

> That's great. So you're not going to hire someone just because they don't use English as a first language? You ignorant, ignorant ducking fool. You forgot a full stop, by the way.

I wouldn't hire someone who wasn't fluent either. Rory speaks English better than most of the native speakers I come across. My standards are stupidly high, too.

[JeffSventora]

Spelling is very important, especially when you have to read the code they implement.

[evilbunnie]

@JeffSventora:

> Spelling is very important, especially when you have to read the code they implement.

It just has to be understandable. Please tell me you don't have a hard time understanding "hireing" means "hiring".

Although maybe it comes off as a level of intelligence to you guys, the only thing I would judge is how well they can program and make what they say understandable. A few simple spelling mistakes would not put me off.

[JeffSventora]

Well it's understandable if if other people have different accents and first-hand languages. But it doesn't change the fact that if I hired someone to program for me and they named a variable "hireing" I would automatically revise every single bit of incorrectness within the changes. Of course, it doesn't tamper their ability to code but it would just be annoying.

[jcsnider]

@lel:

> lol oh…. " I see what you did there."    -.^
> Its a shame I was hoping for JC to add his two cents.

I greatly apologize that I disappointed you ;).

I personally do not feel that this is my place to speak. I am one of the few that got mentioned as a good programmer but I have been offline for over a month.

Here is what I will say. Some of us can program and get what you want done. Others are only after your money and will throw out pitiful lies that will keep you at bay while they ask for more and more cash up front without giving any results.

There are very simple methods around this. I am going to reiterate what lel has already said in that a programmer can do a job, get it done and send a compiled project to the buyer (without the source) and let the buyer test it all out before any payment is sent. This will protect the buyer because they know the product is good and it works, then, the buyer can send money in exchange for the source. A simple way for both the programmer and the buyer.

Now, the buyer COULD run off with the server and client without the source however they are then ensuring that their game is limited and painful for the little time that the game is able cling on to life.

Needless to say I have no worries as most edits I do go up to $20 or so at the max and if someone out there were to have me do the work and never actually go through with the transaction, I could find others that would want the edit and eventually still make money off of the project. (This is exactly how the pet system (that I made) came around).

Really, just be smart when picking a programmer. Everyone here has a profile, check them out and ask around, it is your money in the long run so lets not give it to some random man with 2 posts and then turn around and spend MORE money with the programmer you could have chosen in the first place.

On a final note, I would like to say thanks. One, for recommending me as one of these programmers to consider, two, being good customers (+1 for lel, dxxknight, and MANY others), and three, a nice group of people to talk to and learn from (+1 for wabbit (nice guy, good programmer) and many, many others).

[gregnator]

Maybe i'm stupid… but when i saw the title i was like: WHAHAHA someone is willing to pay 2 cents for a programmer! what an idiot!.

but now.. i feel like an idiot...

[renzo]

@Captain:

> It just has to be understandable. Please tell me you don't have a hard time understanding "hireing" means "hiring".
>
> Although maybe it comes off as a level of intelligence to you guys, the only thing I would judge is how well they can program and make what they say understandable. A few simple spelling mistakes would not put me off.

I don't mean any offense, I completely understand what you mean, but even I would be hesitant to hire a programmer who isn't fluent in english to program in a strictly english programming language, especially when money is involved.