The Eclipse Optimization Project (EclOpti)

[Growlith1223]

yes it is, it's a lot faster plus it's more organized

[Stein]

> I was exadurating on the size just to prove my point. I am just trying to help out based on my previuos experience. 15mb of tilesets should not take 2 minutes to load, I have 512mb ram and a 2ghz processor and it would not take me that long. If someone can play BF3 or MW3 why wouldn't they be able to play your game that has 15mb worth of tilesheets people that play PC games have computers made to play pc games.

Because the main playerbase for these games have terribad computers for christ knows whatever reason. That is why, and over here, even on my current computer EO3.0 by default takes 16 seconds to load, on an i7 2700, 32gigs of RAM and a friggin SSD.

> 120 seconds / 50 tilesets = 2.4 seconds per tileset.
>
> 2.4seconds * 6 tilesets = 14.4, so it should take about 14 seconds to reload everything when changing maps according to your numbers above.
>
> But also according to you 6 tilesets = 1 second then the client should load 50 tiles in less then 10 seconds, this doesnt add up.
>
> If the persons computer is "slow" why would you want to make it compute different information every time you change maps.
>
> What if someone decides they want to use a little of something from each of the 51 tilesets, this is a hobbie people are not that organized you are loading 51 tilesets again or even the surrounding maps 5 maaps cached or 3 tilesheets used per map that is still 15 tilesheets that are being loaded.

Would you rather have it crash with an out of memory? Or take up 70% of a system's resources? I would think not. I personally haven't noticed any impact on speed when switching maps, and on slower computers it'd take a minute amount of time regardless to load a new map, simply because of their disk controllers being relatively slow along with minor latency.

And even a hobbiest could consider not being a complete twerp and be somewhat clever about their mapping, it simply gets confusing if you use several tilesets, I always forget what set the tiles are on.. So I usually try making tilesets that hold just about anything I could need for a specific theme.

> If you are really that worryed about performance switch to c++ or build an engine from ground up it would be easyer. I was just trying to help out by giving my opinion. 8gb of ram you can buy now for $70 a processor 8 core amd $180 not very expensive so don't tell me people cant afford or can't have high performance pcs.

1) If you pay me 20 bucks an hour, sure. I'm doing this as a side project for fun. I could rewrite it in C if I cared to. But the thing is, I do not have the time to spend an entire evening every day to rewrite something complex, and as you said, hobbyists will not be very clever, and since most of them can't even comprehend the basics of VB6, how would they get along with C?

2) You'd be surprised, every day at work I get people with hardware that's 8-9 years old, and they refuse to update it or spend money on it. Or even HAVE the money to do so, it's not as simple as people think. I personally never had the issue of lacking the money to purchase new parts, or an entire new machine. But not everyone has the same financial situations.

> Switching from Enums to Constants - what is the point of this? Is grouping with enumerations better?

The main this is that an Enumeration uses 4Bytes of memory in TOTAL. While every loose constant uses a single byte, so any Enum with 5 or more entries is a minor change in memory usage. And back when we tested this in Eclipse Dawn, it ended up giving the server a significant boost in speed on lower end computers.

**EDIT:** changed part of Lenn's last addition, namely the tileset loading.. The map editor will no longer load every tileset it can find, but rather whichever one is used on the current map as well as the one you're currently selecting on the map editor screen.

[dimx]

> Because the main playerbase for these games have terribad computers for christ knows whatever reason. That is why, and over here, even on my current computer EO3.0 by default takes 16 seconds to load, on an i7 2700, 32gigs of RAM and a friggin SSD.

[http://www.touchofde…releases-24-30/](http://www.touchofdeathforums.com/community/index.php?/topic/127309-eclipse-nightly-releases-24-30/)

Is this the engine that you guys ar optimizing? I am sorry I am not from around here much. But if it is by default that engine takes me 8 seconds flat to load and login to the game and I am on my 1gb of ram, dual- core 2.6ghz processor, hdd 7200 rpm read write speed right now running windows xp

It uses 1-4% of my cpu 190k memory usage.

I understand what you guys are saying but what I am seeing here and the numbers that you guys are giving me don't match up at all, I really dont understand why would it take you that long to load the client data considering i7 could load the whole W7 operating system probably in 30 seconds or less.

[Stein]

Windows XP, exactly that. I'm running Windows 8, which is taking significantly longer to process D3D8 calls as well as Windows 7 does(vb6 is far from native to these OS's, it loads significantly faster on XP than it does on Windows 7, and even now on Windows 8 with our changes just loading the UI pictures onto the forms takes 6 seconds.. The statement "But it works for me" is one of the worst things you could go by in IT, especially programming. There's millions upon millions of different setups and configurations. They all work different one way or the other.). And besides, low CPU usage doesn't mean it's written efficiently ;] have you ever seen the abomination that is the event system's source code? As well as a bazillion unfinished or poorly written sections of code all over the engine? I would assume not.. But it is far from complete or anywhere near done proper.

Different systems and setups will give different results, please keep that in mind. And also keep in mind I'm not saying your opinion and statements are invalid, it's just that there are still plenty of things to rework and fix up on various fronts, as well as stuff that could be restored to previous functionality as much as possible, because the way it is currently handled is just a major "What the ef" situation.

[Exception]

Noticed a problem with losing the device, and loading tilesets: will be fixed later on. Gotta go.

Oh, and…

> I was just trying to help out by giving my opinion. 8gb of ram you can buy now for $70 a processor 8 core amd $180 not **very expensive so don't tell me people cant afford or can't have high performance pcs.**

Oh, go away. I can't afford to have one, so, there.

[tslusny]

> Noticed a problem with losing the device, and loading tilesets: will be fixed later on. Gotta go.

Ok i dont looked deeper at your loading/unloading tilesets, but you can add byval Complete boolean to sub unloadtextures and add check so it will unload all textures completely when losing device

[Stein]

Or just call the loading/unloading sub in the checklostdevice sub. Why add so much unessecary bullcrap to it?

[tslusny]

> Or just call the loading/unloading sub in the checklostdevice sub. Why add so much unessecary bullcrap to it?

as i said i do not looked in to your source deeper so i do not know how you handled loading/unloading when needed, i done it at same way as CS:DE and this was best solution for me

[Whackeddie99]

When you guys changed the constants to enums - did you have to replace every MAX_PLAYER_SPELLS or whatever, with what your enum is? Lmao, that would be annoying XD

[Stein]

Nope, just listed ones that went like 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc. such as Tile Types.

[dimx]

@[Champion Iris](http://www.touchofdeathforums.com/community/index.php?/user/76717-champion-iris/)

I didnt say you have to have the best hardware available, but ok fair enough.

> Windows XP, exactly that. I'm running Windows 8, which is taking significantly longer to process D3D8 calls as well as Windows 7 does(vb6 is far from native to these OS's, it loads significantly faster on XP than it does on Windows 7, and even now on Windows 8 with our changes just loading the UI pictures onto the forms takes 6 seconds.. The statement "But it works for me" is one of the worst things you could go by in IT, especially programming. There's millions upon millions of different setups and configurations. They all work different one way or the other.). And besides, low CPU usage doesn't mean it's written efficiently ;] have you ever seen the abomination that is the event system's source code? As well as a bazillion unfinished or poorly written sections of code all over the engine? I would assume not.. But it is far from complete or anywhere near done proper.
>
> Different systems and setups will give different results, please keep that in mind. And also keep in mind I'm not saying your opinion and statements are invalid, it's just that there are still plenty of things to rework and fix up on various fronts, as well as stuff that could be restored to previous functionality as much as possible, because the way it is currently handled is just a major "What the ef" situation.

I understand that you will have performance issues on different systems, but there is not a single fix for everything, the vb6 language is restricting if you want a wide range of devices go for Html5 and javascript everything that has a upto date browser will run it (Just trying to backup my statement I dont mean it literaly). I am all for what you guys are doing here and would like to help also you are right I didn't look trought the source code to see how bad it is but I will.

[Exception]

One of the reasons why I loved EO, and VB6 and it's available libraries is because I can just run it on my computer, without issues, and I could just make something in about 10 minutes and go.

EO3 changed all of that, it became slow, and made it a hassle for me to try and use effectively. I've been slowly rewriting my own copy to be much more efficient, but like I said, slowly.

As for the HTML5 and Javascript idea, personally, I would love to make a JS/HTML5 engine someday, but at the moment, I just don't have the time.