Esoteric Statistics

[Dark Crusade]

Esoteric Statistics
Mystery, uncertainty and discovery.

What if players could not see the properties and statistics of weapons, armour and items? If they pick up a new sword, what if they didn't know that it could deal 2-10 damage, and was worth approximately 90 coins? An intriguingly original and realistic approach we could take, is to completely cut off all visual statistics and properties of all items. Players would have to use the items name, description and appearance to estimate their properties, but more realistically, experiment and use it.

This gives us a lot of power in future release candidates, if we make items with special qualities. They may find a 'vampire blade', as an example. It looks like its capable of average damage. When they attack an enemy, they'll realise that, wow; it has leech life qualities! They will also gain a different approach at learning the world and its items. They may find a spooky looking helmet, try it on to realise its cursed, and they can't take it off! They may find a mysterious ring; and have no clue what it does; however later realise that it negates a large amount of fire damage, or when they drop down to 20% health or lower, they deal extra damage.

Additionally, requirements on weapons would also be hidden. If a low level character tries to weld a powerful item, they would be confronted with the message "Your not powerful/agile/smart enough to use this weapon". Now this is a very questionable feature; as I'm aware that various players probably wouldn't like the concept of not knowing whether they can use a particular weapon before they purchase or find it. Perhaps a balanced mixed between estimating how good the item is, and whether or not the player can use it, would be a simple message on it, (including when its available at the store), saying "You don't think you would be strong/agile/smart enough to use this".

It isn't without its share of negative outlooks however. Players may become frustrated if they purchase a new weapon that isn't quite what they expected, and some players may try to sell items for high prices, claiming they are something they aren't.

As for crafting, there world be a 'nil recipe' approach. Instead of learning new recipes to make new potions, instead you'd experiment by mixing two different reagents. Mixing 'fire salts', and a 'red solution', as an example, may conjure up a fire potion which provides temporary fire resistance. Or mixing a 'healing herb' with 'red solution' may create your standard healing potion. When it comes to ores, mixing two different ores creates ingots. Example, platinum ore and magic ore may create a mythril ingot, or such.

Crafting, itself would obviously take a different approach. Instead of randomly mixing items; you would go across the continent to different cities, finding various weapon-smiths and armour-smiths, who each have different assortments of items they can make, assuming you have the components and some gold to pay. Dwarves deep in the mountains, compared to humans in an imperial city would be able to make different items, using different components, encouraging you to travel.

I ask you, what are your thoughts on this concept? Would you like to see it in a game, or nay?

[Ruins of Hell]

Definitely would like to see this in a game. Not only would provide more dynamic gameplay (especially the crafting part), it would also be more realistic.

Only way I can see to stop the trading thing is to color-code the item based on rarity. It's quite obvious that a bent sword is worse than a normal one. Thus, the bent sword could be a trash (black or gray) and the normal sword could be normal (white). While this will give the player some hints, it would be a rather broad range, so you can't infer much from the rarity. As something may give good defense, it may be a rare item, even though it does little damage.

[Techno 5.0]

Honestly this idea would build alot of realism in gaming. My friend and I are currently devoting toward a Post Nuke 3D Game in which you have only a pack, notebook, pencil and what ever you can find.
In the real world a small pop up wouldnt tell you what the item is capable of. This is a very good idea, even though many people wouldnt see that.
Like you said above people will constantly become frustrated. Probably because they are used to the old fashioned this does such and such damage. This also opens opportunities for players to scam other players and thus that will cause alot of frustration. Good idea but needs to be thought out a little more.

[Irhymer]

I really like this idea. I agree with how it makes the world more mysterious and experimental. I've actually thought of ideas like this multiple times but always turned it down because of

> "Players may become frustrated if they purchase a new weapon that isn't quite what they expected, and some players may try to sell items for high prices, claiming they are something they aren't.
> "

But the way your explained it opened my mind, and the pros overshadow the cons by a long shot. So yes, I would love to see this in a game. Especially with someone like you behind the project.  :azn:

-Irhymer

[Dark Crusade]

@Soul:

> Definitely would like to see this in a game. Not only would provide more dynamic gameplay (especially the crafting part), it would also be more realistic.
>
> Only way I can see to stop the trading thing is to color-code the item based on rarity. It's quite obvious that a bent sword is worse than a normal one. Thus, the bent sword could be a trash (black or gray) and the normal sword could be normal (white). While this will give the player some hints, it would be a rather broad range.

Thanks for the opinion, I also definitely agree with the color-code system as well.

@Ninja-Tech:

> Honestly this idea would build alot of realism in gaming. My friend and I are currently devoting toward a Post Nuke 3D Game in which you have only a pack, notebook, pencil and what ever you can find.
> In the real world a small pop up wouldnt tell you what the item is capable of. This is a very good idea, even though many people wouldnt see that.
> Like you said above people will constantly become frustrated. Probably because they are used to the old fashioned this does such and such damage. This also opens opportunities for players to scam other players and thus that will cause alot of frustration. Good idea but needs to be thought out a little more.

Agreed, the concept is early in thought; however I'm working on thinking and planning it out completely, to ensure a flawless system. I'll likely update the post regularly.

@Irhymer:

> But the way your explained it opened my mind, and the pros overshadow the cons by a long shot. So yes, I would love to see this in a game. Especially with someone like you behind the project.  :azn:

Hehe, thanks man. and I regardless will ensure that the cons are as minuscule as possible, before finalising the concept.

[Myron]

I don't think they would get frustrated that much, if you do show the Rarity color's and I'm sure players will make their own list of all the items and equipment with their minimum attack and maximum and probably the bonus (Life leech, fire resistant and etc.)

It also makes the game much more fun, you'll have much more to discover so not only areas and new items. And I think its safe to assume that some players will be helpful and help the new players with some items they should have on that level and what they shouldn't (Buy or trade).

[Dark Crusade]

@Rushεr:

> I don't think they would get frustrated that much, if you do show the Rarity color's and I'm sure players will make their own list of all the items and equipment with their minimum attack and maximum and probably the bonus (Life leech, fire resistant and etc.)
>
> It also makes the game much more fun, you'll have much more to discover so not only areas and new items. And I think its safe to assume that some players will be helpful and help the new players with some items they should have on that level and what they shouldn't (Buy or trade).

Alright, so I've pondered on the two main 'frustrations'.

1\. Uncertainty when player-trading-
Simply said, I don't imagine players would be stupid enough to buy random items without being somewhat sure they are good or not. We'll obviously make good items look good, such as rarity names, graphic icon, and description. If someone was selling a rusty looking axe, with a no rare name color, which had the description 'This axe looks worn and weathered, and shows signs of a lot of heavy use.", are you going to fall for it when they say it's enchanted and powerful?

2\. Uncertainty to buy an item if they can't use it-
Simply a combination of a message saying- "You don't think you would be strong/agile/smart enough to use this", as well as rarity name color, description and item graphic, to help the character estimate what it does, and how good it is.

[Robin]

Keep in mind that players will obviously be doing their own research. If I was faced by this system it wouldn't be a matter of simply hovering over the shop items and finding the one with the most damage, it'd mean asking around, discussing possible choices with friends and posting on the forums for advice.

I believe this could only strengthen the community and open up communication which would otherwise never happen.

As I see it, the maturity and strength of a community is the most important part of an ORPG.

[Dark Crusade]

@Robin:

> I believe this could only strengthen the community and open up communication which would otherwise never happen.
>
> As I see it, the maturity and strength of a community is the most important part of an ORPG.

And that is one of the team's goals. Some of our major ambitions is to create a project which emphasizes on exploration, a social community, and simplistic originality.

[Robin]

Stop talking like I'm not part of the team. :(

goes back to his hole and cries.

[Dark Crusade]

There is no team without you, you know that! I was speaking for the team in a unbiased perspective. xD

[Helpmeplz]

I think this is an awesome idea go for it Kreator

[Dark Crusade]

Think I just might.

[gaming ace]

One great idea you've come up with there. I'd _really_ like to see this in any orpg. Go for it!

[Anna Comnena]

I personally like the idea, because when fixed values are always in place, the games turn to nothing but spreadsheet organization. I know in MMOs that is what some players like, all that tedious management and mathematics with their specific builds and all of that; personally I find that sort of stuff distracting to the immersion of the game world.

[Drummerpete]

I love this idea.
Brings a whole new deepness to the game.

[IceCream Tuesday]

If you wanna go more realistic with this..
How about making items degrade over time. and you need to sharpen and take care of your gear. Like.. the weapons slowly lose damage ability, but because of the rust building up on your sword, you do a poison like damage.

[ddunit]

@IceCream:

> If you wanna go more realistic with this..
> How about making items degrade over time. and you need to sharpen and take care of your gear. Like.. the weapons slowly lose damage ability, but because of the rust building up on your sword, you do a poison like damage.

Your "poison" damage would take hours or even days before doing any kind of damage. Also, this kind of thing would be pointless in a game where you grind, grind, grind and grind some more, because the notion and possibility of a 1 hit kill against even someone stronger then you does not apply.

[balliztik1]

@IceCream:

> If you wanna go more realistic with this..
> How about making items degrade over time. and you need to sharpen and take care of your gear. Like.. the weapons slowly lose damage ability, but because of the rust building up on your sword, you do a poison like damage.

Elandor is not setting out to be realistic, just encompassing. The team is aiming to provide a feel like old SNES games, where you didn't know just how much damage you were going to do per hit. You had to equip a weapon or two and decide which was better. As of now, there is no durability on items, nor any desire to add such a game element. It just doesn't fit the simplicity Elandor Chronicles is going for.

@DDunit:

> Your "poison" damage would take hours or even days before doing any kind of damage. Also, this kind of thing would be pointless in a game where you grind, grind, grind and grind some more, because the notion and possibility of a 1 hit kill against even someone stronger then you does not apply.

DDunit's got a point here, too. Tetanus takes days to weaken an opponent. I'm not too certain what grinding has to do with rust damage, though. Elandor Chronicles hopes to promote a grindless advancement, however. The quests in Elandor will take you all across the land, doing various tasks of exploration and dungeon raiding. There is enough content, we feel, that there should be no need to kill the same things over and over to be able to compete. Provided, it will be possible to grind out levels, but since the story won't be advancing while you're swatting at wolves, it's an incredibly boring path to take, and one we wouldn't suggest.

As it pertains to stats, the esoteric view will hopefully encourage at least some form of community interaction. We have several games we look at for inspiration, many of which have a great community feel, so we're trying to achieve that same level of interaction, while maintaining a simplistic system.