Eclipse Community

[xelander]

You guys are too stuck up with the problem, try to see a solution, even if it's straight out dumb, share it because it might give other people ideas.

People naturally lose interest in things, there was an era with a lot of interest in making your own ORPG, which lead to a huge growth in the Eclipse community, but as time passes, the site just let it go. People left because they lost interest, but no one came to replace them, and Eclipse became hidden, not a lot of people hear about it, so there's not a lot of interest built around it.

I'm sort of coming up with things as I write, but I believe that an investment in advertising would be nice, I was actually planning something once I get my pay at the end of the month, since I have had it quite short of money as of recently, but I believe even free advertising such as forum signatures, and viral marketing would help.

[Mohenjo Daro]

> I'm sort of coming up with things as I write, but I believe that an investment in advertising would be nice, I was actually planning something once I get my pay at the end of the month, since I have had it quite short of money as of recently, but I believe even free advertising such as forum signatures, and viral marketing would help.

I agree that advertisement may help, but what is there here to advertise? A buggy, closed source engine and a few buggy, open source engines that are more stable but lack a lot of things.

If we want to fix things, we have to have something to help people come back. As Chief said, we're all take take take, but that's human nature half the time, we have to have something for them to take.

[xelander]

Well I simply stated a way to acquire new members, most clueless people do not realize it's buggy, and they do not care whenever it's open source or not, so I think it's a good start. Naturally, there's a lot more you can do, and that we all should do, it's just a matter of figuring out what.

[deathtaker26]

> Just gonna throw my two cents in on this.
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> I'd say we DO have a fair amount of say in how things are run. What on earth is the point of being a staff member if you have no community. I say this cause that's kinda what happened; people didn't like the way things were running, so they left, some by being banned for speaking their minds (still ridiculous by the way. what are we? Russia in WWII?), and some just leaving.
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> Anyways, I agree, things need to change or this place is gonna die. Heck I've even considered leaving from time to time, and I have the most recorded online time of anyone here of late. (since it started being recorded to display near the avatar)

That's not really having a say… if people are banned for speaking their minds or leaving, then obviously their not getting their way. So they don't really have a say. I promise, right now, if one of you guys got up and left because you didn't like the way the community was run, it wouldn't affect Amish or really anyone at the least, I know it's harsh but, it's the truth.

And this is coming from me, I've made an effort to help out eclipse and no one else really put a foot forward to help out they only agreed. So people say they will do something, people say they will help out, but when it comes down to it, no ducks were given that day.

[Chief]

Your grammar is atrocious.

[deathtaker26]

> Your grammar is atrocious.

Yeah I've been on 4chan the last week or so. I'm kind of in a stupid place right now where everything pisses me off and I really don't care about my typing. Give me a few hours and I should be good.

[Amish]

Ok, I will chime in here and let you see what goes through my mind, and I am open to suggestions. First off the idea of charging for eclipse, was and still is not to make money. It was simply to pay to have some programming done, and get a more robust version of the engine out there. There is no "profit" happening. On average the site pays for itself. There is no way I could ever recoup the cost of the coding that went into 4.0\. I have thought of making 4.0 open source. JC simply does not have the time to support it. I would like to add that according to Robin eclipse was never "open source" Someone posted his source code and it was off to the rodeo. That being said, I didn't remove the "open source" versions that were on the site. We did remove some versions that JC felt had nothing to offer, or were redundant with other versions.

As far as silver vs gold goes, gold was meant to be a version for people that wanted to make a commercial game. If someone makes money off of my investment or hard work, why should I not be entitled to a piece of that pie. So far I have not even seen a game that maxed out the silver limits much less the gold versions. What I have not done, which is my fault if make a document that fully explains what 4.0 can do. The zone system in 4.0 is very powerful, and few if anyone knows what it can do.

 The reason for closed source was not to stunt development, but rather to have a stable engine, not 20 versions that crashed all the time.

V will come along as I can afford it. we just made a huge improvement that reduced server start time from 5 minutes to 9.7 seconds. We are taking our time to make sure that the core is stable, and fast.

 As far as banning goes, the bans that have been made were primarily because of rudeness. When I was a lurker on the site " for about two years" I saw person after person ran off the site, by "members" who were not programmers and not interested in making games. So please tell me what function those people had other than grieving people. I have banned some people for unwarranted personal attacks. I wouldn't let someone come to my house and attack me or my family, and the same goes here.

As for this being like Russia, or no free speech, this is not a country, but a website and that does not apply here. With that being said, I can take healthy criticism, but when it degrades to personal attacks there is just no reason for it.

What I would truly love to see is a community where people come and play, and make games, while supporting each other in that endeavor.

I have even thought of doing V as a Kickstarter type project, so that it could be free to the masses, and let people sell scripts here on the site.

 I would love to hear constructive criticism. Not so much that I am just a greedy jerk.

At the end of the day I too am just a fan of the game engine, trying to do what I can to make it better. I have learned that not everyone can be made happy. If I payed people to download the engine, some would still complain! lol.

Just a fun fact about 4.0, as of today there are 14,603 registered free versions of 4.0

[Growlith1223]

You never see the silver limits being met because everyone ends up buying Gold because of so little of everything. The 20 versions crashing all the time is part of the joy of being open source, People make spin-offs and they continue to work on it. Keep in mind, keeping the source to yourselves only hurts you as the community itself can't do anything about the errors. the only way to fix errors is to contact one of like 2 developers working on EO 4/V, and even then, it takes a while for them to get back to you, Open source breaks that limit, allowing ANYONE to help anyone. I like that there's going to be a new engine(EclipseV) but i feel it's going to go in the wrong path. I don't think anyone has called you greedy. more just over-pricey. 

The number of registered free versions generally mean nothing. that number doesn't mean how many are actually being worked on. just means in general how many have been registered, Meaning, more than likely, half of that, if not more, is just people checking it out and then just not using it. Now if you said that was the number of free versions that are registered AND being worked on then yea, there's some significance to that number. not trying to degrade, just trying to make a point, just because you have something doesn't mean it actually is there.

The criticism being made half the time are not personal attacks in any way, They were simply stating(in their opinion) how the community has fallen. and it is somewhat true, the community has fallen immensely, and as you can see, people are leaving even more.

The take take take thing…You seem to misunderstand, yes, some of us just take take take, but you're generalizing too much, not everyone is the same. There are those who have given and given and given, and what have they gotten? the same thing, people just take take take. Yes, i agree to an extent with this but it's not the same with everyone.

Sincerely,

Growlith1223

[deathtaker26]

Okay, growlith, you're missing his point. Amish is stating that he only created EO gold and closed source BECAUSE he wanted to try to improve for the next release. He wanted to better the community, while his methods may not be Ideal to us, he has the same goal in mind and that's absolutely respectable in my book.

[Growlith1223]

Oh no, i didn't miss his point, i knew what his point was. there's a difference in knowing and disagreeing.

[deathtaker26]

> Oh no, i didn't miss his point, i knew what his point was. there's a difference in knowing and disagreeing.

All he needs right now, is the community to give him trust. While I disagree with a lot as well I still have faith that if Amish's intentions are good, maybe his actions can actually help. He didn't by eclipse to whore himself a shizz ton of money. He bought it with the community's interest at mind. He's one man and the fact that it's taking a while to change is because, well he has staff, he has members, but the thing is the community won't work together to help out. It's a bunch of people whining and nagging that Amish can't run the community instead of trying to loan a hand. 

I'll be honest, i've tried to help out and I might have failed in some cases, but that doesn't mean I'll stop trying. Amish isn't around 24/7 he can't be around as much as most of us can, so we really need to help him out and fill him in on what the communtiy needs. If I could help run the site, I would, but I can't because it's not mine to say what I need with. I've thrown out my opinions and if Amish takes them that's his choice.

[Growlith1223]

I didn't say he was trying to fuck him self over with doing this, im simply stating that he made a bad decision, and it lead to a huge decrease in members, leading to hate, leading to no one helping. You're not the only one who's trying to help the community and amish out.

[SkywardRiver]

> You're not the only one who's trying to help the community and amish out.

Here here.

I was actually thinking of releasing the Skywyre engine to the public. It's incredibly stable and fast, but I want to keep it to myself xD.

A word to Amish, you were saying that one of the reasons you didn't go opensource with 4.0 was because JC wouldn't be able to support it, but you see, the lovely thing about Eclipse is we have [had] a lot of proficient programmers here that could help out as well.

"What's that? You found a bug? JC can't fix it because he's too busy and will be for the next several weeks? Alright, let me check it out. Yay it's fixed."

Can't even tell you how many times this has happened here (minus the part about JC. It would've been Robin instead, but rather than 'too busy' it would've been 'I don't like you, I'm not gonna help you'.)

Just something to think about.

[Ezemel]

I agree 100% with Growlith and Sky

> I have banned some people for unwarranted personal attacks. I wouldn't let someone come to my house and attack me or my family, and the same goes here.

**You keep telling that, but the problems is, that we didn't came into your house, we were already there when you bought it.**

There were absolutely no personal attacks, people raged because the way Staff removed their content [messages, threads] and of course they started to hate the staff.

Nothing was done about it, and they started opening their mouth, telling the truth about this community, and sometimes truth hurts.

That's why you felt and still feel offended, but honestly there is no point feeling that way, because you and your staff did the wrong thing.

Let me tell you more about this whole "Family" situation.

If a kid lacks discipline you need to try the best to educate him but in a positive way.

Let's say You are the Father and the rest of the staff are your brothers and children.

Eclipse community are your step sons.

A step son tried to eat a sweet, your Brother or children punished your step son, [banning = killing, removing content = kicking his *]

You found about what happened and took no action or at least no positive action [You came into my house and tried to steal my sweets]

The step sons started to hate everything about you as a Father and your siblings.

Some of them started opening their mouth by telling you are the worst Father and you only love your bros and kids.

You felt offended [They are in my house, how dare they talk like that when they tried to eat my sweets]

Obviously there were no house rules about who can eat or not the sweets [First Mistake]

You never educated properly your siblings [Second Mistake]

As a Father you took side of your closest siblings [Third Mistake]

You started killing your step sons once they talked back to you or to your siblings [Fourth and biggest mistake]

**Now Translated**

You had no rules about what people shouldn't post, you never updated the rules, you only felt offended and thought that is for the best.

You never instructed your Staff when and why threads/posts should be deleted/removed, when members should get banned and why.

You let them act on their own, because you trust them, or you gave them the permission to do what they did, because you felt offended.

You took the Staff's side back then because personal things were involved.

When members got tired of so many deleted messages and threads, they opened their mouths and spoke the truth, as unprofessional as you are you started banning them.

The Ban contained No Reason message.

Because they never broke any rules, they just reacted when they were aggressed by the staff, and you took it personally. 

Dr.House as annoying for some members as it was, didn't had any personal issues with the staff until they started removing even the harmless thing she said.

You got her banned because of your personal things, "she was too negative for this place"

She was Right about everything and you cannot admit it !

You don't know how to run a community and obviously you don't know how to pick your staff.

**In the future or hell even right now**

- Create your own Rules

[MadalinV]

> I agree 100% with Growlith and Sky
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> **You keep telling that, but the problems is, that we didn't came into your house, we were already there when you bought it.**
>
> There were absolutely no personal attacks, people raged because the way Staff removed their content [messages, threads] and of course they started to hate the staff.
>
>  
>
> Nothing was done about it, and they started opening their mouth, telling the truth about this community, and sometimes truth hurts.
>
> That's why you felt and still feel offended, but honestly there is no point feeling that way, because you and your staff did the wrong thing.
>
>  
>
> Let me tell you more about this whole "Family" situation.
>
>  
>
> If a kid lacks discipline you need to try the best to educate him but in a positive way.
>
>  
>
> Let's say You are the Father and the rest of the staff are your brothers and children.
>
> Eclipse community are your step sons.
>
>  
>
> A step son tried to eat a sweet, your Brother or children punished your step son, [banning = killing, removing content = kicking his *]
>
> You found about what happened and took no action or at least no positive action [You came into my house and tried to steal my sweets]
>
>  
>
> The step sons started to hate everything about you as a Father and your siblings.
>
> Some of them started opening their mouth by telling you are the worst Father and you only love your bros and kids.
>
>  
>
> You felt offended [They are in my house, how dare they talk like that when they tried to eat my sweets]
>
>  
>
> Obviously there were no house rules about who can eat or not the sweets [First Mistake]
>
> You never educated properly your siblings [Second Mistake]
>
> As a Father you took side of your closest siblings [Third Mistake]
>
> You started killing your step sons once they talked back to you or to your siblings [Fourth and biggest mistake]
>
>  
>
> **Now Translated**
>
>  
>
> You had no rules about what people shouldn't post, you never updated the rules, you only felt offended and thought that is for the best.
>
>  
>
> You never instructed your Staff when and why threads/posts should be deleted/removed, when members should get banned and why.
>
> You let them act on their own, because you trust them, or you gave them the permission to do what they did, because you felt offended.
>
>  
>
> You took the Staff's side back then because personal things were involved.
>
>  
>
> When members got tired of so many deleted messages and threads, they opened their mouths and spoke the truth, as unprofessional as you are you started banning them.
>
>  
>
> The Ban contained No Reason message.
>
> Because they never broke any rules, they just reacted when they were aggressed by the staff, and you took it personally. 
>
>  
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> Dr.House as annoying for some members as it was, didn't had any personal issues with the staff until they started removing even the harmless thing she said.
>
> You got her banned because of your personal things, "she was too negative for this place"
>
>  
>
> She was Right about everything and you cannot admit it !
>
>  
>
> You don't know how to run a community and obviously you don't know how to pick your staff.
>
>  
>
> **In the future or hell even right now**
>
>  
>
> - Create your own Rules

[Growlith1223]

It was more than just Dr.House, there were countless members who were banned SPECIFICALLY for stating what's wrong with the community now.

[Erikai]

As a person coming in from the outside, I have to say that the members here give off a clique-ish vibe. This too can contribute to the community fading away. New members will not exactly feel welcome. and the community being divided among itself will make older members leave. Member against member, member against staff, or some elitist a-holes are usually how it starts. All of which I've witnessed here.

So in my personal opinion: the way Eclipse conducted its engine(s) might have slowed down the community's productivity, but not the sense of togetherness. That has to do with personal agendas and ego.

[Seb]

You're the second person I've seen raise this issue we really need to work on the cliqueyness.

[SkywardRiver]

Just waiting for this thread to be deleted, locked, or moved to the 'board of shame'. Too much truth has been spoken. That isn't allowed in Soviet Russia

[Chief]

This thread is so full of entitlement and ignorance. Also, for the record, Mad Hatter, we know you're Dr House–you're not fooling anyone. Creating multiple accounts to avoid a ban has always been against the rules; you're very much so contributing to this community being negative.

For everyone, if you feel like this place isn't good anymore, what's stopping you from leaving and starting/joining another forum? You are guests on someone else's website, you're not owed anything, and you have no real rights here. Being a member here is a privilege; if you cannot abide by the rules, you may leave.

It's not like we punched you in the face, or stole your first-born son. The website was sold, and now you don't like it. Alright, then leave. Sure, you can offer up suggestions, but most of what's in this thread is just crying over spilled milk, instead of getting a towel to help wipe it up.

[SkywardRiver]

> Also, for the record, Mad Hatter, we know you're Dr House–you're not fooling anyone. Creating multiple accounts to avoid a ban has always been against the rules; you're very much so contributing to this community being negative.

Actually, Mad Hatter is Lumiere. Like, for a fact xD

[Chief]

I have confirmation that she has the same IP and computer as Dr.House.

[SkywardRiver]

> I have confirmation that she has the same IP and computer as Dr.House.

I would think so, they live in the same house. Nah, I know it's Lumi, and don't take this the wrong way Lumiere, cause she writes with near the same level of English as she used to. Annnnnd, she can recall a skirmish we had on a site about 6 months ago.

[Ezemel]

@Chief 

We are lovers lol, what would you expect, we even sleep in the same bed, share the shower, wash each other's back, Sherlock.

On-topic

Chief, what rules?

You don't even read what I post, you like to argue just to get quoted and reply back with the same crap, trying to antagonize me.

This thread isn't about whinning and other crappy stuff.

Amish somehow asked for a talk back now, I never left with the tail between my legs, I always faced anyone no matter what, when I had something to say.

I only said what was wrong and why the members left.

Back when Robin was still lurking around, people got way much more often insulted and offended by all crap, but the forum was never this empty like it is now.

Back then, was the same thing "you don't like it, you are free to leave", people chose to stay and helped the community.

Now there is no community to help.

We cannot bring the people back, that's why we only can say what went wrong and can't do a damn thing now, when it's too late.

We are free to say what we like and what we don't, it's in our nature to rise against things we think are wrong, since there is no rule that forbids that we can't bring up such subjects as I did.

[Seb]

Chief didn't you create another account to avoid a ban?