This is getting rediculous.

[LucasA33]

**Before anyone even has the right mind to correct me, I know this program is free, just wanted to give my feel for the program. Please don't flame at my ranting. I am just giving my honest opinion, and I hope you can understand that.**

1) Some things are more harder then it should be; I love the aspect of the edit ingame feel, but my god; your tool is more hell to use that makes people give up in the middle of thier mmo.
I'm pretty sure more people would appreceate you made it like RPGMAKER, you know "Text events" rather then an lameduck "Say" message where you hit cntrl and sometimes always miss.

2) The Controls are god awful for the program. CNTL For action? How in the hell would I tell newbs that. Let us configure the controls, with out having to adapt into scripting;

3) Event Spawners? Really? They are good for one purpose: MONSTERS, not NPCS. I keep finding myself flirting with the controls for hours to get a map done, that is just redicous.

4) Finding IMAGES of items is PRETTY damn hard when you have to scroll thru 9000 images of icons. Alot? I planned for alot of items, and found myself in an dissipoint. Again, this is HARDER then it really should be, and I almost just about now gave up on the program.

5) Finding about /loc just a day ago, it is pretty helpful, but why not do what RPGMASTER VX has done? Choose an map and pick where you want to warp. Instead, you have some retarded "Scrolling picker thingy" that really makes it frustrating to use.

6)No MP3 Support. This is pretty self explaintory.

7) Making an item is vitally impossible with out an help button.

8) This program is NOT noob friendly, WHAT so ever. This is what I loved about VX, it was simple.

9) More preset-ed material. I know I am pretty much an ass when I say "There are not alot of resources to learn off of.

10) It is hard finding people play my MMO due to the complicated getting started setup.
You have to get them to download an "RTP" which is hell getting them to think it is not a virus.
I know RPGMAKER has this kink too. But hell, no one downloads my games anyways.

Again, I am kinda stressed there are not any custom mod that makes this easy, and by god; if there is, please just link me to it.

There are numours times I felt like stopping, because of the complications this program has. I know alot are probably going to be fixed in updates, but it is a matter of when.

I also know this is free, I should "get used to it". I shouldn't.
As an user of eclipse, I have an right to share my opinion. I hope I didn't anger anyone in the process, as it wasn't intended -end

[zidsal]

> 2) The Controls are god awful for the program. CNTL For action? How in the hell would I tell newbs that. Let us configure the controls, with out having to adapt into scripting;

learn to code and change it your self, you won't get anything done with out being able to code

> 4) Finding IMAGES of items is PRETTY damn hard when you have to scroll thru 9000 images of icons. Alot? I planned for alot of items, and found myself in an dissipoint. Again, this is HARDER then it really should be, and I almost just about now gave up on the program.

you are obvoiusly not ready to make a game

> 6)No MP3 Support. This is pretty self explaintory.

http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/games.html this is pretty self explaintory

> 8) This program is NOT noob friendly, WHAT so ever. This is what I loved about VX, it was simple.

this program is very noob friendly your making an online game for crying out loud how easy do you think its suppose to be.

> 10) It is hard finding people play my MMO due to the complicated getting started setup.
> You have to get them to download an "RTP" which is hell getting them to think it is not a virus.
> I know RPGMAKER has this kink too. But hell, no one downloads my games anyways.

its not possible to run a visual basic 6 program with out the libary files…. its a microsoft product why WOULD anyone think thats a virus when you can download it from the microsoft site its self...

[Carim123]

It's not hard, you're expectations are just stupidly high, and you're being stupid, yourself.
Like others said, get used to it, and make it yourself rather than complaining.

Frankly, if you're going to complain, go away, nobody's gonna make it for you. This program weren't made to be simple, or tailored to your wants and needs, it was made as a base engine for you to use and make an MMO with it.

* * *

1) That's VB6 being VB6\. Nothing to do with Origins.
2) Simple, you tell newbs the controls. We've all managed, I'm sure they can.
3) Event Spawners? This is an ORPG, not an RPG. Slight difference.
4) Organise your graphics, then.
5) Write down your maps, or program a map list that you can access from the admin panel.
6) MP3s require a license to be commercially used. That license is $2500, I believe. Feel free to pay for it.
7) Urh…no it isn't? Everything is clearly labelled.
8) RPG Maker VX =/= Eclipse Origins. They do two completely different things. Since when was making an ORPG easy?
9) So? Everything is for demonstration purposes, anyway, you aren't meant to use them.
10) So?

Seriously, no program is perfect, but for a free, lightweight, and brilliant open-source engine like Eclipse Origins, I'm glad it exists, and I'm glad I can use it to learn from. STFU, and start learning, like we've all done since Eclipse Stable.

Modmins, etc, excuse the bluntness, but you have to admit, this _is_ idiotic.

[SawQuart]

Its made to be extremely basic for a reason. It's not meant to be an engine that you can just pick up and start making a game, but rather an engine that you ACTUALLY HAVE TO ALTER to get what you want.

Yes, I know it is hard to actually make a game by not just click things down. Get used to it.

[Robin]

**1.** I'm sure a lot of features could be improved to be like that of RPG Maker. You seem to be forgetting that this engine is made by me and me alone - not only that but I've stopped development of it. You want it to compare to a piece of software programmed by a professional team of developers who are in turn hired by one of the biggest media companies in Japan. I say you're being silly.

**2.** Same way you teach them anything - explain it to them. If you want to change it then change it. It'd require you changing a single line of code.

**3.** This isn't a single-player RPG creator. An MMORPG is a hell of a lot different in terms of architecture and development. Stop assuming otherwise.

**4.** Then change it. The image system was designed to have a small footprint and to easily scale. If I were to develop it in the way RPG Maker did then that'd add a _huge_ overhead to every single data packet. Just because you don't understand how this engine works doesn't mean you have the right to assume it's not properly done.

**5.** Then go program it in.

**6.** You want to pay for the license? No, I thought not.

**7.** My job is to make the software, not to hold your hand.

**8.** No, it's not. Making an MMORPG is not something a noob should be doing. At all.

**9.** No.

**10.** Then you set it up wrong. Crystalshire has over 1,500 registered accounts just fine. I'd say the way you're presenting your project is what's causing this issue.

Making an MMORPG is on a completely different level than making an RPG. You've completely disregarded the shit required to make this thing actually run well on low-budget machines. You take it for granted that you can host the game server from home yet complain about the measures taken to accomplish this.

Your ignorance and arrogant comparisons between an open-source project made by a single person and a commercial product created by one of Japan's leading media companies is breath taking.

Making an MMORPG is not something you should be doing lightly. Creating a video game takes a lot of work - creating an MMORPG takes 10x more. You need to develop both the front-end and the server. Pretty much got two projects you need to keep in sync.

If you honestly felt like giving up then it's best that you do that. I won't mourn your passing.

[Ruins of Hell]

@LucasA33:

> **Before anyone even has the right mind to correct me, I know this program is free, just wanted to give my feel for the program. Please don't flame at my ranting. I am just giving my honest opinion, and I hope you can understand that.**

Understood, we give you a game engine, you give us nothing and tell us what's wrong.

@LucasA33:

> 1) Some things are more harder then it should be; I love the aspect of the edit ingame feel, but my god; your tool is more hell to use that makes people give up in the middle of thier mmo.
> I'm pretty sure more people would appreceate you made it like RPGMAKER, you know "Text events" rather then an lameduck "Say" message where you hit cntrl and sometimes always miss.

their MMO.
appreciate.
lame duck.

The reason we don't add feature {X} to the main engine:

* Not every game needs feature {X}.
* Feature {X} is not suitable for MMORPGs. (The case with nearly every feature you state here.)
* Feature {X} slows the game down.
* Feature {X} is buggy.
* Feature {X} lacks polishing.

@LucasA33:

> 2) The Controls are god awful for the program. CNTL For action? How in the hell would I tell newbs that. Let us configure the controls, with out having to adapt into scripting;

Pretty much everyone knows the control key (thanks to the Control-C Control-V combo or Control-Alt-Delete).
If they need help:

@LucasA33:

> 3) Event Spawners? Really? They are good for one purpose: MONSTERS, not NPCS. I keep finding myself flirting with the controls for hours to get a map done, that is just redicous.

I beg to differ. It's very useful to put a shopkeeper standing in one spot. It's also useful to have the town herald wander around. By giving you less we give you more to work with.

@LucasA33:

> 4) Finding IMAGES of items is PRETTY damn hard when you have to scroll thru 9000 images of icons. Alot? I planned for alot of items, and found myself in an dissipoint. Again, this is HARDER then it really should be, and I almost just about now gave up on the program.

[](alot)[](http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html)

If you want to have 9001 items, make 9000 first. Don't go around adding items you aren't sure you need.

@LucasA33:

> 5) Finding about /loc just a day ago, it is pretty helpful, but why not do what RPGMASTER VX has done? Choose an map and pick where you want to warp. Instead, you have some retarded "Scrolling picker thingy" that really makes it frustrating to use.

Like I said above, first make two maps. Then link them together. Not hard, very simple.

@LucasA33:

> 6)No MP3 Support. This is pretty self explaintory.

Give me $15,000 for the license. You heard me.

@LucasA33:

> 7) Making an item is vitally impossible with out an help button.

Vitally?

That's why we have tutorials, to help you. I thought each was pretty self-explanatory as well.

@LucasA33:

> 8) This program is NOT noob friendly, WHAT so ever. This is what I loved about VX, it was simple.

This program is simple. You're below simple. Therefore our views are skewed.

@LucasA33:

> 9) More preset-ed material. I know I am pretty much an ass when I say "There are not alot of resources to learn off of.

No. Those materials aren't even owned by us, they're just for demonstration purposes.

@LucasA33:

> 10) It is hard finding people play my MMO due to the complicated getting started setup.
> You have to get them to download an "RTP" which is hell getting them to think it is not a virus.
> I know RPGMAKER has this kink too. But hell, no one downloads my games anyways.
> Again, I am kinda stressed there are not any custom mod that makes this easy, and by god; if there is, please just link me to it.

It's called an installer. All professional games use it. Have you ever checked the size of your registry before and after downloading a game? I'd think you'd be surprised.

@LucasA33:

> There are numours times I felt like stopping, because of the complications this program has. I know alot are probably going to be fixed in updates, but it is a matter of when.
>
> I also know this is free, I should "get used to it". I shouldn't.

numerous.
[**alot**](#alot)

None of these are bugs, therefore, none will be fixed.

@LucasA33:

> As an user of eclipse, I have an right to share my opinion. I hope I didn't anger anyone in the process, as it wasn't intended -end

You're right, "this

[Godlord]

Game development simply isn't for the faint-hearted.

Most game development teams have to endure more than you ever will, being a hobbyist, and having the majority of tools right in front of you. Westwood Studios, best-known for Command & Conquer, started out in a garage, from what I remember. Most of the software teams, and eventually companies, like these use have to be written by themselves. Most of the art (graphics, music, sound effects, etc.) have to be produced by them as well. Most of them never could afford an entire orchestra, a studio or several applications that would make their lives easier. Nowadays, you are presented with overused graphics, perhaps some simple sound tracks and an entire engine to use. I can pretty much conclude that you shouldn't be complaining here, after all.

If you disagree with how the engine is developed, then either alter it yourself (which you are allowed to do, since it is open-source), or go use another engine.

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[DJMaxus]

It's true that Eclipse has its strengths and weaknesses but it is still one of the top engines available, and the easiest to use. I assure you though, you're not going to find an engine that is simple, fast, and easy to use, because with that mindset, all you'll produce is a terrible game.

Most members come to Eclipse with the intent of creating an MMO within a few days/weeks, without actually doing much work themselves, or having everything done for them. The base engine is very clean and stable. It's not like RPG Maker VX, where you can make a good RPG right out to the box. With Eclipse, you should modify it, work on it, and give it time, because this is an MMO you're creating, not a single player RPG. Things will be different. If there's something you don't understand, ask, someone will help you.

There are other engines out there, you could try them, but you will have a much harder time if you think Eclipse is difficult.

There isn't a single engine on the internet that is going to fit your ideal MMO perfectly.

[DrNova]

People always say *learn to code, learn to code"..

BS I say. I miss the old eclipse, that was easier to pick up. I miss scripting. Editing the source was an awesome OPTION. Orgins, while I'm sure a completely competent engine, is moving away from what eclipse was, imo.  Looking around as I do on visits, it hasnt really strengthened the production around here.

Eclipse needs a supported friendly version imo, alongside Orgins.  Was more fun around here when the engine was easier and the community always growing.

[azkanan]

This thread is full of so much flame win. It's so successful at Baiting, I'm considering if OP is a very defined troll.

In any case, if you don't like the program, then find another. If you can't find another, make an Engine from the ground up.
If you aren't ready for the above three options, go back to RPG Maker till you are ready.

@Robin:

> open-source project made by a single person

You made the entire project yourself? No credit to Rory for the website, or, whatever else he did?

[Godlord]

@Azkabanana:

> I'm considering if OP is a very defined troll.

To me he's just a whining kid who thinks game development is a socialist's job.

@DrNova:

> BS I say. I miss the old eclipse, that was easier to pick up. I miss scripting. Editing the source was an awesome OPTION. Orgins, while I'm sure a completely competent engine, is moving away from what eclipse was, imo.  Looking around as I do on visits, it hasnt really strengthened the production around here.

Games made with Eclipse Evolution had limited potential. What I do agree with though, is that games made with Eclipse Origins don't have much more potential either. All by all, Eclipse is still being written in Visual Basic 6\. Basically there are two parties: people who do this for fun, educational purposes, etc. and the people who want to get somewhere. Currently neither parties are to be content.

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[Robin]

@DrNova:

> People always say *learn to code, learn to code"..
>
> BS I say. I miss the old eclipse, that was easier to pick up. I miss scripting. Editing the source was an awesome OPTION. Orgins, while I'm sure a completely competent engine, is moving away from what eclipse was, imo.  Looking around as I do on visits, it hasnt really strengthened the production around here.
>
> Eclipse needs a supported friendly version imo, alongside Orgins.  Was more fun around here when the engine was easier and the community always growing.

I'm moving away from what Eclipse was as fast as I possibly can. Regarldess of what engine is given to the people around here it doesn't change anything. Origins cannot strengthen production by simply existing.

If people couldn't make a game using ES/EE/TE then they won't be able to make a game with EO. It's not Origins which is stifling creation but the creators themselves.

Most of the old school teams have grown up and moved on. It's an endless cycle of new people coming along, showing promise, then giving up before it comes to fruition. It's always been like this in the independent games scene and it always will be.

Ask any single independent game developer (regardless of Eclipse roots) and they'll tell you the hardest part of a project is actually finishing it.

I give them the software they need to make a game (and we all know you can make a bloody good game with it - Silverdale and Crystalshire as prime examples) and it's up to them to actually work with it.

[LucasA33]

I am not pleased with alot of the feed back.
I'm not trying to be mean, I am (To the best) to give honest feed back of what I think is wrong.

I am not whiney, nor am I an child at all (15 –')
I gave you SOMETHING, and that is BEING here.

I read some of the replies, however alot of them were
pushing me to leave, and how on earth is a community not be welcoming to
everyone?

The replies are all almost biased upon: "I should just leave then" and that is by god, NOT how an community should.

I was giving my honest feedback, and if you do not like it, then where is the room to criticsm.
I don't need to "Give" anything more then my time and effort to make an game with the program I think has an little faults.

Please be more conserderte when feedback like this is gaven and try to be conforting back, because if I wasn't me, I would have probably left already due to the community being hurtful. --'

[Ruins of Hell]

@LucasA33:

> I am not pleased with alot of the feed back.
> I'm not trying to be mean, I am (To the best) to give honest feed back of what I think is wrong.

Going to tl;dr my opinions on this post:
_Mutato nomine de te fabula narratur_.

[Robin]

@LucasA33:

> I am not pleased with alot of the feed back.

Good, I'm not with yours either.

@LucasA33:

> I'm not trying to be mean, I am (To the best) to give honest feed back of what I think is wrong.

Honest feedback of someone who's used to having software hold their hand is next to useless. As I've already said this software isn't for the faint of heart.

@LucasA33:

> I am not whiney, nor am I an child at all (15 –')

So you're a child.

@LucasA33:

> I gave you SOMETHING, and that is BEING here.

Along with 32,000 other people. It really doesn't mean much, I'm afraid.

@LucasA33:

> I read some of the replies, however alot of them were
> pushing me to leave, and how on earth is a community not be welcoming to
> everyone?

You've got to understand how you're coming across here. You're giving off the impression that you're the kind of guy who comes to a community based around group contribution of free help, tell everyone it's shit and then expect to be treated with respect. Not going to happen.

@LucasA33:

> I was giving my honest feedback, and if you do not like it, then where is the room to criticsm.
> I don't need to "Give" anything more then my time and effort to make an game with the program I think has an little faults.

Your 'criticism' comes down to, "Making a game with this software is too hard." That's not constructive, it's just whining.

@LucasA33:

> Please be more conserderte when feedback like this is gaven and try to be conforting back, because if I wasn't me, I would have probably left already due to the community being hurtful. –'

Wow, if people really leave a community for having their points constructively used in a debate then there are some real pussies where you live.

[Godlord]

The criticism of someone who has the mindset that everything should be done for him or her isn't worth a penny.

If you think everything should be easy, go back to your old set of tools. If you actually want to get somewhere, then start learning, before ever getting to the point of criticising or providing feedback.

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[Kyrie]

@LucasA33:

> **Before anyone even has the right mind to correct me, I know this program is free, just wanted to give my feel for the program. Please don't flame at my ranting. I am just giving my honest opinion, and I hope you can understand that.**
>
> 1) Some things are more harder then it should be; I love the aspect of the edit ingame feel, but my god; your tool is more hell to use that makes people give up in the middle of thier mmo.
> I'm pretty sure more people would appreceate you made it like RPGMAKER, you know "Text events" rather then an lameduck "Say" message where you hit cntrl and sometimes always miss.
>
> 2) The Controls are god awful for the program. CNTL For action? How in the hell would I tell newbs that. Let us configure the controls, with out having to adapt into scripting;
>
> 3) Event Spawners? Really? They are good for one purpose: MONSTERS, not NPCS. I keep finding myself flirting with the controls for hours to get a map done, that is just redicous.
>
> 4) Finding IMAGES of items is PRETTY damn hard when you have to scroll thru 9000 images of icons. Alot? I planned for alot of items, and found myself in an dissipoint. Again, this is HARDER then it really should be, and I almost just about now gave up on the program.
>
> 5) Finding about /loc just a day ago, it is pretty helpful, but why not do what RPGMASTER VX has done? Choose an map and pick where you want to warp. Instead, you have some retarded "Scrolling picker thingy" that really makes it frustrating to use.
>
> 6)No MP3 Support. This is pretty self explaintory.
>
> 7) Making an item is vitally impossible with out an help button.
>
> 8) This program is NOT noob friendly, WHAT so ever. This is what I loved about VX, it was simple.
>
> 9) More preset-ed material. I know I am pretty much an ass when I say "There are not alot of resources to learn off of.
>
> 10) It is hard finding people play my MMO due to the complicated getting started setup.
> You have to get them to download an "RTP" which is hell getting them to think it is not a virus.
> I know RPGMAKER has this kink too. But hell, no one downloads my games anyways.
>
> Again, I am kinda stressed there are not any custom mod that makes this easy, and by god; if there is, please just link me to it.
>
> There are numours times I felt like stopping, because of the complications this program has. I know alot are probably going to be fixed in updates, but it is a matter of when.
>
> I also know this is free, I should "get used to it". I shouldn't.
> As an user of eclipse, I have an right to share my opinion. I hope I didn't anger anyone in the process, as it wasn't intended -end

Let us see your MMO engine?

[LucasA33]

I see that, I (as the post said) tried not to get anyone angry and I was just trying to be honest with my feelings. (I'm not good at terminology).

So if I said it too harse, I didn't mean to!
Sorry!

edit - sorry for the lateness, internets been acting up

[Richy420Rich]

When I first started, I felt the same way not knowing how to run the software accordingly, and wondering why this was like this and why that was like that, but instead of flipping out like this - I put time into it and learned what did what.. The community here has support and they would do what they could to help you along the way, but without the time or patience to sit down and really learn it, then this very well wouldn't be the hobby for you to pick up.

[Legolas Td]

Removed becuz im better than that.

[DJMaxus]

@Legolas:

> I will bet you guys $10 right now he is a damn ignorant republican from the US.
>
> Any takers?
>
> Regards,
> Legolas Td

Please, there is no need for that. It's posts like these that drive people away from the Eclipse community. Keep those remarks to yourself.

[Legolas Td]

Ok, sorry.
Ill remove.

Regards,
Legolas Td

[LucasA33]

Wow, just wow. ^you are really rude.
And you know what, so is everyone else; Ill leave it off like this.

I am not a republicain either.
I'm more of an independence.
:)

And I am not yelling either! I am not flipping out nor do I think I am
trying to yell at the owners!

Since some of you guys are really immature to take my feed back properly, I will lock this;
Thank you for that, by the way; I wanted more of an dicussion that was talking about the topic rather then you diehard pros taking me calling me "stupid and selfish". Jesus;

[Robin]

@LucasA33:

> Since some of you guys are really immature to take my feed back properly, I will lock this;
> Thank you for that, by the way; I wanted more of an dicussion that was talking about the topic rather then you diehard pros taking me calling me "stupid and selfish". Jesus;

Don't confuse the situation. I can take feedback just fine. What I'm trying to get across to you is that your feedback is useless because you've made it perfectly clear that you want a game engine like RPG Maker.

I've said it so many times now that it's not even funny - making an MMORPG is nothing like making an RPG.

So far you've complained about the data storage, graphical indexing, editing suites, npc system, controls, music system, default resources and, let's not forget, the general 'noob friendliness' of the software.

What all this does is build a very strong image of a leech. You have no desire to learn how to use the software, how to edit the source code or just generally how to make a game. You expect the software to be easy to use yet completely ignore the fact that the very act of making an MMORPG is _not_ an easy job.

I take feedback very well. A lot of the changes made in the past have been recommendations of the community. I just don't take _your_ feedback very well because it's useless to me and the progression of my software.

[LucasA33]

I completely understand what you are saying, and I learned alot that I didn't know.
I wasn't wanting it to be like RPGMAKER.
I was just using it as an example of how simple the program can be.

I wasn't trying to nag onto the point where I was saying your software sucked, like alot thought I was.

For example: I would love it if instead of scrolling through one image, just have an popup grid like RPGMAKER has and lets you pick the image.

I would also love to have it so you can change the controls; like RPGMAKER.

you know, have an custom tab in "server" which lets you control your players how they move.