[Official] Eclipse.NET

[SawQuart]

@Azure:

> Anything made with c# isn't a serious project. "INB4 Stephan."

Yes, because Terraria isn't a serious game at all. :roll_eyes:

Seriously Azure, I know it isn't the best language out there, but you're a "designer", not "programmer". If you don't know any languages yourself, I suggest that you stop trying to thwart other's efforts with your usual "inb4" posts. He's trying to contribute to the community, not start a stupid debate with Windows and Linux fan-boys.

[azure]

@Jungle:

> Yes, because Terraria isn't a serious game at all. :roll_eyes:
>
> Seriously Azure, I know it isn't the best language out there, but you're a "designer", not "programmer". If you don't know any languages yourself, I suggest that you stop trying to thwart other's efforts with your usual "inb4" posts. He's trying to contribute to the community, not start a stupid debate with Windows and Linux fan-boys.

I'm just going to ignore most of that since you're 14 and you don't even know what you're talking about. ;) I will point this out though

Why have I posted this: Because I want CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, this community is full of great minds, and that is equal to many great ideas.

My constructive crit was to move to a programming language that's faster, and it or one of it's variants work on any platform you could choose. Windows, Mac, Linux, Mobiles, Consoles… What?

[evilbunnie]

@Ryoku:

> but your not going to include a "scripting system" are you? That would be a step backwards…

If it's done right and the whole engine isn't orientated(like it was) around it then it can be an advantage in some ways. For example a closed source engine.

[SawQuart]

@Azure:

> I'm just going to ignore most of that since you're 14 and you don't even know what you're talking about. ;) I will point this out though
>
> Why have I posted this: Because I want CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, this community is full of great minds, and that is equal to many great ideas.
>
> My constructive crit was to move to a programming language that's faster, and it or one of it's variants work on any platform you could choose. Windows, Mac, Linux, Mobiles, Consoles… What?

I just dont see how someone who is using VB6 can comment on another person using C#. It's not exactly constructive when you come in with "inb4" every time you make a post. Work on your wording a bit so that it actually sounds like you are constructing on a point, and not just bashing without any facts. Secondly, I find it annoying that you are ignoring me because of my age. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I can't prove points.

And I'm 15 btw ;)

[evilbunnie]

@Jungle:

> I just dont see how someone who is using VB6 can comment on another person using C#.

That's irrelevant. He's said to me many times move to C. Just because he's using the language doesn't mean he can't have his own opinion. Jesus.

Also his argument is against which is fastest. And well if you're going to say that we can't comment because we use VB6 then well.

@Jungle:

> Secondly, I find it annoying that you are ignoring me because of my age. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I can't prove points.

Just because we use VB6 doesn't mean we can't prove points.

C# sucks stick

[Godlord]

@Jungle:

> - snip -

I wouldn't be ignoring you because of your age, but because of your lack of an ability to form proper opinions. Until you can, I am just fine with ignoring you.

Also, ad hominem arguments are weak, ergo invalid.

@Jungle:

> Yes, because Terraria isn't a serious game at all. :roll_eyes:

You do know that the quality of both Terraria and Minecraft is incredibly low from a programmer's viewpoint?

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[Medleyy]

Seriously, you two, who cares about the programming when there's rainbow confetti?!

[Godlord]

Merely ignorant people judge a book by its cover.

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[SeeingBlue]

@Azure:

> You should stop being lazy and do C or C++ then. ;)

This was not constructive. Constructive criticism is informative. "stop being lazy" is hardly informative. If your intention was to suggest a different language based on speed, then you should have stated so right off the bat, & not later in the thread in order to defend yourself.

You did it again here.

> Anything made with c# isn't a serious project.

This is also not constructive. You don't just go around making statements without any points to back that statement up. If you really believe your statement to be true then you should have a reason for that belief & you should share it when you spread that belief. Otherwise you just look like a "know-it-all with no proof.

[azure]

@SeeingBlue:

> This was not constructive. Constructive criticism is informative. "stop being lazy" is hardly informative. If your intention was to suggest a different language based on speed, then you should have stated so right off the bat, & not later in the thread in order to defend yourself.
>
> You did it again here.This is also not constructive. You don't just go around making statements without any points to back that statement up. If you really believe your statement to be true then you should have a reason for that belief & you should share it when you spread that belief. Otherwise you just look like a "know-it-all with no proof.

You should probably go back and actually read my argument. You'd be rather surprised at how wrong you are. Secondly, the world doesn't need you to save it so stop trying. In fact the person who needed to respond to my criticism did so in a reasonable manner. <__<

@JeffSventora:

> I don't consider this a serious project, not at all. This is just a practice for concept and structure. I'm only using XNA because I haven't reached my DX/OpenGL classes. Once that happens, on to C++ for me.

I actually missed this among the rabble. For that I apologize. If this isn't a serious project, then do as you please. Personally C++ is perfectly acceptable, although Stephan may have other things to say about it. :D

[The New World]

Quit the arguing and get back on topic. It's being written in C# , if you don't like that, then don't worry about this thread.

I hope the project is coming along well. With any further progress a screenshot or two would be appreciated. :P

[Godlord]

@Encyclopedia:

> Quit the arguing and get back on topic. It's being written in C# , if you don't like that, then don't worry about this thread.

People should actually be able to have some input on the programming language being used. In fact, that is what has driven people away from certain languages.

If anything, you are best off with C because every other common language (C++, C#, D, Java, etc.) is seriously overcomplicating the matter of programming. Books that teach you C are very slim compared to books that teach you C++, C# or Java, because of object-oriented programming, which is in fact non-beneficial as it costs you a lot of performance if you do it wrong, and it is easy to get it done wrong. Object-oriented programming can be useful for certain designs, but shouldn't be part of the programming language itself, and especially not in a forced manner.

I honestly don't care if you decided to use C# because you actually have proper reasons as to why it is a good language to use, but if you don't, then you really should consider forming a proper opinion first, and actually listen to what other people have to say about the matter, and generally people who have plenty of programming experience.

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[JeffSventora]

Like I stated previously, so everyone can understand my choice in language and in the decision to use XNA… I have no experience in working with DirectX, SFML, SDL, OpenGL or any other wrapper/library. Within a few months of going to school I'll gradually build up more experience in those fields, but until then I am using this project as more of an "experience".

XNA is HUGE in the field of indie game development and I'm going to school to program for console games. Knowing XNA for me is great because who knows if I get stuck working for some small indie company working on the next big XBL Arcade hit? I'm slowly but surely progressing my skills throughout all branches of programming and game development with C#, C++, C, or whatever it may be.

As it's been stated, this program will be programmed in C# using XNA and will stay that way. Once I've learned enough to migrate from C# to a faster language like C++ (which I know pretty damn well) I will, I just can not promise I will migrate this specific project or any for that matter. I hope this can put a rest to the battle of the syntax.

[Godlord]

@JeffSventora:

> - snip -

Both [SDL](http://www.lazyfoo.net) and [SFML](http://www.sfml-dev.org/tutorials/1.6/) have tutorials to get you started. Just mentioning, because you were stating you were merely using XNA for acquiring experience and barely have any experience with anything else.

Concerning XNA and the indie market, that isn't entirely true. XNA has received most of its popularity because it is published by Microsoft, and Microsoft is a known company. SDL at the other hand, is made by someone who has actually worked in the game industry, but who most people don't know. Also, Allegro and SFML are two competitors Microsoft's XNA has to share the market with. Because one library is getting the majority of the spotlight, doesn't mean it's the best around, and it will certainly just attract more people who think they can create a good title than people who actually know what they are doing (the indie market is filled with titles, but only a few have a good reputation). Even if you did get to join a respectable group of game developers, you are probably going to stay at the indie market, and most-likely with just one respected title, which is also going to put you at the risk of being bought out à la Westwood Studios.

It's just best to keep progressing whilst you are at it.

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[JeffSventora]

@S.J.R.:

> -snip-

Which is entirely true, however, if I'm using this to gain experience with XNA, then I can also do the same to gain experience with both SDL and SFML. Do I plan on doing that eventually? Absolutely, but those projects will be nowhere near in-depth as this one. I'll simply be doing enough to gain the experience with them.

[Godlord]

@JeffSventora:

> Which is entirely true, however, if I'm using this to gain experience with XNA, then I can also do the same to gain experience with both SDL and SFML. Do I plan on doing that eventually? Absolutely, but those projects will be nowhere near in-depth as this one. I'll simply be doing enough to gain the experience with them.

That makes it seem that you are in favour of XNA. Is there an exact reason to be, or am I just misinterpreting something?

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[JeffSventora]

Honestly, from experience I do indeed like XNA. I get along with it and the way it's set up. Sure, it does most of the work for me, which as a lazy person is good (as a programmer, probably, most likely bad). And it's #1 selling point for me is the ease of port to the XBL Arcade. That's money dude.

[Godlord]

@JeffSventora:

> Honestly, from experience I do indeed like XNA. I get along with it and the way it's set up. Sure, it does most of the work for me, which as a lazy person is good (as a programmer, probably, most likely bad). And it's #1 selling point for me is the ease of port to the XBL Arcade. That's money dude.

SDL targets Microsoft Windows, GNU/Linux, Apple Mac OS X, Microsoft Windows Mobile (Not Microsoft WP7, because Microsoft decided to drop almost every language for that platform), Apple iOS (iPhone, iTouch, iPad) and Google Android. I see more money here, than with just your XBL Arcade. Also, SFL, SFML, Allegro and XNA are all made to be easy to use, so that point is going to be invalid as well.

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[JeffSventora]

I understand that, but I was more focused on the ease of porting. With XNA, a couple of #if's is all it needs. But like I said, I'll tap into SDL and SFML eventually.

[Godlord]

@JeffSventora:

> I understand that, but I was more focused on the ease of porting. With XNA, a couple of #if's is all it needs. But like I said, I'll tap into SDL and SFML eventually.

With SDL and SFML, it's merely compiling your application on Microsoft Windows, GNU/Linux and Apple Mac OS X without even having to touch your code, and my exact point was about you _favouring_ XNA over SDL and SFML. The reason why is because you have people who have no proper reasoning at all, and just go ahead with the first thing that smacks them on their faces.

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[JeffSventora]

It's not that I favor anything? It's obvious that I do not know much about SFML or SDL. Just because I choose not to work with them first does not mean I prefer XNA over them, it just means I started working with XNA first. As of now, I know more about XNA to work with it. Until I research the others I won't be interested in practicing them. On top of that, I would much rather prefer to learn OpenGL before I even use a wrapper.

[Godlord]

@JeffSventora:

> It's not that I favor anything? It's obvious that I do not know much about SFML or SDL. Just because I choose not to work with them first does not mean I prefer XNA over them, it just means I started working with XNA first. As of now, I know more about XNA to work with it. Until I research the others I won't be interested in practicing them. On top of that, I would much rather prefer to learn OpenGL before I even use a wrapper.

You'll need a wrapper before you can use OpenGL, unless you intend to create a window for OpenGL on every single platform yourself (This is why SDL, SFML, GLFW, etc. are popular).

Yours faithfully
  Stephan.

[JeffSventora]

>.< The more you prove that I don't know about them (which I don't) the more you are supporting my reasons for using C# and XNA. I'll know all about that stuff in due time good sir and when I do I'll expect someone like you to bash it until it's polished.

[JeffSventora]

**Update**
Added a download for a very simple GUI demo showing off the buttons, text box and particle effects.

[Medleyy]

I feel mildly suicidal. I downloaded it, clicked the application and nothing actually happened.

…No stars... :'(