Career Path

[Harris6310]

I'm considering following a career path involving computer science and/or game development. Has anybody got any advice? I'm currently at college studying maths, computing, electronics and business A-levels. I plan on going to university.

[Keebler Elf]

If you plan to go into a legit game development program at a college(I guess you call college university though…) then you better really enjoy calc and physics. Game development programs like to try and weed out all the kids who say hey I want to go make the next halo or call of duty but not put shit loads of work in. If its what you enjoy go for it but you better make sure you have damn good grades to get in.

[Bonk]

Games development. If you don't mind doing another College course beforehand, there's courses on games development that will prepare you for the University course so you can get a foot in the door (I'm doing one right now).

There's a lot of assignments, but if you like 3D modelling and you put the work in, you won't find it difficult. It also might be a good idea to find out what software they use so you can get some experience in it. I'm using 3Ds Max, Mudbox and Maya for 3D modelling, UDK, Unity and Game Maker for engines and Bamboo tablets for use with Photoshop. That's pretty much the standard kit.

The course I'm taking right now involves a break-down for 3D Modelling Lessons, Digital Graphics, Storyline and Character Development, Industry Studies and Life Drawing. Each individiual lesson tends to interlace for your assignments which can end up with some good results.

Games Design is more interesting for the course content, but jobs can be difficult to find. Try Gamasutra and Edge Magazine for job listings and keep up to date with news.

It's really a case of staying at pace with the industry whilst acknowledging the mistakes of the past. If you can identify the common pitfalls and traps, then you'll fly through. Just keep your work original, otherwise you'll end up working on a FPS like most of my classmates. And another generic FPS is all the World needs, really.

[Robin]

Game development is one of the easiest ways to destroy any interest you have in developing games. Industry sucks the love and care out of anything, making vaginal-like brown water which is what the modern day AAA shooter is built up from. Most of the big companies are overseas, and most of them chew out any new talent till there's nothing left, splitting them out and replacing them when they're done.

If you have something you love which you want to turn in to a job then you need to either be your own boss or find a boss which has a similar sentiment to you. Not a big corporation. Look in to independent game development if you're interested in that, but you're starting out way too late in my opinion. Most successful people have been doing it since they were kids.

I can't say much in the way of education. Degrees are worthless now-a-days with even entry level positions requiring a few years experience. After those years of experience a degree simply says you have discipline but says nothing about your knowledge of current affairs. I mean look at how fast computer hardware changes. 4 or 5 years ago you would have been learning how to program for the PS2\. That knowledge is now useless.

Spend your time building up a portfolio and just getting your name in everything. You'd be surprised how many things I can get access to simply by pointing out I'm the developer of Eclipse.

You need to show people you're a unique opportunity. That won't happen if you have the same shit under your belt that everyone else does. I can instantly stand out in a job interview because I've handled development and support for over 35,000 (in theory). Sounds a hell of a lot more impressive than making an asteroids clone in Uni.

If you do decide to go to University, don't take it too seriously. Enjoy yourself. You'll have this time to learn how to do things properly without your mother's teet to suckle. Very important life skills which you'll have to learn sooner or later.

Whilst at Uni make sure you do independent projects throughout the course. At least one per year. That kind of shit will make you stand out.

Hell, even Jacob's latest job was all over the fact that he programmed a shitty little game in VB6\. He's a full blown software engineer making bank right now.

[Jeff]

@Robin:

> Hell, even Jacob's latest job was all over the fact that he programmed a shitty little game in VB6\. He's a full blown software engineer making bank right now.

So you're saying that Jacob got his position because he made mirage realms?  Did he go to college or do anything else big to get the position?

–edit
reduced size of massive quote

[Robin]

He's worked in IT for a while now so he had experience but he dropped out of college. They loved that he programmed outside of his job. This shows that he has a genuine interest rather than just doing it for the money. Of course it helps that he's just very good at his job.

It's all about getting your first job. Once you've got that first position on your CV it's 100x easier to get a job from then on.

[Jeff]

How do internships compare to first jobs?  Is a 6 month internship equivalent to 6 months of working somewhere?

[Robin]

Is that an American thing? Never heard of it.

[Kusy]

I'm going to die a game developer. That's about it.

Right now I'm a gfx shaman for a tennis club. Not demanding, not hard, not stressing, not sure how I'll get paid after the test period is over.

[Jeff]

@Robin:

> Is that an American thing? Never heard of it.

Could be an american thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship
Pretty much working without being paid.  It's good on resumés to some extent, but I don't know how much.  Often after an internship you can get hired full time for the company you interned at.

[LeaRae]

I wouldn't specialize in game development - instead, study Software Engineering which is a somewhat more "real life application" of computer science.  It will open your eyes to how software is made, and then you can make anything.  Also, you'd then have a degree lending it self to being team lead or a manager - and that's where you want to be. DESIGNing code instead of WRITING code :)

I'd say a portfolio is the biggest thing.  Get projects out there.  When I apply for jobs and I show them Coloreye on the Android market or my website at http://leafexcavations.com they love that stuff!  Keep the code clean, you never know when a company will say, "You look good, send me some code" - Just happened to me, luckily I had some code I felt like sharing!

I am temporarily dropping out of uni right now, I'm planning to go back but not for a year at least.  Who knows, if I get a great job I might not need to go back.  Anyone who talks to me knows that I Know My Shit.  While Mirage Source got me started, it didn't teach me development practices or how to work in a team.  I'd say you should go to college/uni, if not just to learn that stuff as well as leadership and teamwork skills.

As far as internships go, there are two types.  There are paid internships and unpaid internships.  Let's just say this: unpaid internships are for artists, not scientists or engineers.  If a company tells you the internship is unpaid just walk out.

[Kusy]

@Frostyy:

> Could be an american thing.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internship
> Pretty much working without being paid.  It's good on resumés to some extent, but I don't know how much.  Often after an internship you can get hired full time for the company you interned at.

Not an american thing. It's a corporate thing, easy way for big corporations to get a cottonpicker to do someone's job for free, just to replace him with another cottonpicker after few months.

[Robin]

Why in God's name would you get a job you don't get paid to do? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? If you're good at your job then you get paid to do it. Simple.

[Kusy]

@Robin:

> Why in God's name would you get a job you don't get paid to do? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? If you're good at your job then you get paid to do it. Simple.

Not when you have absolutely no experience. It does work fine with companies that are actually looking for people to hire, but is usually a dickmove pulled by corporations to get a new coffee fetcher every few months.

[kender the great]

You can get paid internships,  but those are usually slim. But like Robin said, don't go into the field thinking that you are going to be the Cliffy B that comes out on top. That hardly ever works out for anyone. Hell I wanted to go into game development and programming for quite a few years until I realized that I would off myself if I had it as a career. Hell I don't even know why I chose what I am in now. Although I do have a knack for it.

[Keebler Elf]

Some colleges here require you to take an internship to get your degree. Which is even worse since your paying them to do work.

[Robin]

Sounds like a stupid system. If you need work experience then get an apprenticeship or work on projects in your spare time.

Hell, if you just need to show you're dedicated and not afraid to work you should do some charity volunteer work. They eat that shit up.

[Harris6310]

So if going to university for game development is pointless, what about the other options? Computer science is really the only subject that appeals to me. I want to be going in to university doing something that I enjoy as well as I'm good at. Obviously I will start working on independent projects in my spare time, game development related or not.

[iSKweek]

Applying for a degree that you are interested in and the amount of interest you will have in the work you will be doing during the degree are two completely different things. Go for something you know you will enjoy after you finish, if you are doing game development full time (or software development/computer anything) are you 100% sure you will enjoy it as much as you do now with it being a hobby?

[Kusy]

@Keebler:

> Some colleges here require you to take an internship to get your degree. Which is even worse since your paying them to do work.

All Universities here require you to do a given ammount of hours as a trainee. Internships are obligatory, that's why I dropped my previous course - I would have to nurse retards or old people.

Right now I'm on Art of New Media course, having fun… in two to five years I will milk the UE for starting bussiness grant and start up a dev studio.

[Magdreamer]

@LeaRae:

> I wouldn't specialize in game development - instead, study Software Engineering which is a somewhat more "real life application" of computer science.  It will open your eyes to how software is made, and then you can make anything.  Also, you'd then have a degree lending it self to being team lead or a manager - and that's where you want to be. DESIGNing code instead of WRITING code :)
>
> I'd say a portfolio is the biggest thing.  Get projects out there.  When I apply for jobs and I show them Coloreye on the Android market or my website at http://leafexcavations.com they love that stuff!  Keep the code clean, you never know when a company will say, "You look good, send me some code" - Just happened to me, luckily I had some code I felt like sharing!
>
> I am temporarily dropping out of uni right now, I'm planning to go back but not for a year at least.  Who knows, if I get a great job I might not need to go back.  Anyone who talks to me knows that I Know My Shit.  While Mirage Source got me started, it didn't teach me development practices or how to work in a team.  I'd say you should go to college/uni, if not just to learn that stuff as well as leadership and teamwork skills.
>
> As far as internships go, there are two types.  There are paid internships and unpaid internships.  Let's just say this: unpaid internships are for artists, not scientists or engineers.  If a company tells you the internship is unpaid just walk out.

I'm studying a Diploma in Game Design.
I find it a stupid mistake.
The only reason I decided to do this was to have more time to work on my portfolio.

If you want to get into the industry as a programmer, take a Computer Science course or as he mentioned, Software Engineering. Companies rarely take any graduates from a "Game Programming" course because they don't teach what is really necessary, just what looks good, and interesting.

Don't fall for these traps.
Go for a less specialized course.

[JeffSventora]

I'm currently attending Full Sail University in pursuit of Bachelor's of Science in Game Development degree. Now, before I continue, Robin is 100% correct in terms of the rapid evolution in technology, there is no doubt. With this in mind you need a plan. For example, because I go to Full Sail, I have the ability as a student to re-audit classes at any point in time for free so long as I complete the program. Now, most businesses WILL offer training for their new workers, it would be foolish for them not to.

What do you need? Well I challenge you to go to Gamasutra and look at the job listings. First off, you will need to be proficient with at least C++, C being the second most popular in modern game development. Second, you will need to be extra savvy with  very specific mathematical subjects including but not limited to; Linear Algebra, Calculus, Trigonometry and of course, Physics. You're going to need to understand what a vector, vertex, matrix, ray, plane, tauros and teapot are in order to be good with graphics.

After that is all said and done, practice. Work on your own small time projects just to develop skills. Always strive to learn more and do your best to network. Attend local events. I went to a bar last year where EA Tiburon was hosting a get together, there I got to meet some pretty cool people. Next year I plan on attending GDC to get my name and portfolio out there.

So long as you follow these four crucial steps (Programming, Math, Practice, Networking) make sure you have a degree to back your ass up. Then you just need to make sure you know how to shake a hand.

[Bonk]

@JeffSventora:

> teapot

I've always wondered why 3Ds Max left that in the primitives…

Anyway, that's if you're going into programming and the like. I muchly prefer graphical work with Photoshop to anything in programming or modelling.

[Robin]

@Harris:

> So if going to university for game development is pointless, what about the other options? Computer science is really the only subject that appeals to me. I want to be going in to university doing something that I enjoy as well as I'm good at. Obviously I will start working on independent projects in my spare time, game development related or not.

Paying £20,000 to do something you enjoy is plain stupid. You go to University to get a piece of paper which is worth the amount of time and money you put in, not to do something you enjoy. You'll enjoy yourself plenty during your free time. Being in University is great.

Don't be one of those idiots who assumes going to University is anything other than investing in your career, though. If you don't know what to do yet then don't go to University. Break away from the pack. I cancelled my University position pretty late on and it's one of the best things I've ever done.

If you're not going to get a better job by getting a degree in your field of work then don't bother going. No point spending 3 years paying your hard earned cash on a piece of paper which only gets you an entry-level position.

It's this kind of mentality which has left so many students today feeling robbed. They were way too naive about how the real world works and now they're paying the price - literally.

[SilentGamer]

This is a really hard decision for two reasons. One, is it worth the money you are putting into it. Two, are you going to get a job in the market very quickly. I am in the same boat as you and am probably the same age as you. I am currently doing an level 3 IT Diploma in web design.

The thing I thought to myself is what will I get out of it. The thing that I will get out of it is skills, but the skills that I want are all online. This A-level just points me in the right direction. That might be the same with you, so I would advise for you to do a course that does a general understanding of game design to see what area you want to specialize in. This will then determine if you need to go to university or not.