Potions in RPGs [Poll]

[Dark Crusade]

Hey guys, another discussion topic about an aspect of game design. Potions, how do they affect your gameplay experience, and what is your preference in regards to their usage mechanics? I'd love to hear all opinions! I've also made a poll with a few questions. Below are my opinions-

Potions should not be able to be spammed.If they have no cooldown timer, and they work instantly, What does this mean? This mean's that a rich player who purchases hundreds of potions can outlive pretty much anything. Combat doesn't require skill or tactics. You just need to not be vastly outlevelled, and you could probably take on most enemies out of your league as long as your packed with potions.

Personally, I love the idea of only being able to drink potions out of combat. Drinking a potion in combat and sustaining damage will cause you not to drink the potion. The timer of 'drinking time' should take about 3 to 5 seconds, and following this brief time, the potion's effects kick in, such as restoring health, which may be over a specific amount of time (such as restoring 50 health over 5 seconds once the potion is quaffed). As for a cooldown time, I'm currently uncertain… perhaps your player can only drink a specific amount of potions over a time. Once the player has quaffed say... 3 potions in a 2 minute interval, they have 'potion sickness', and have to wait a short time before they can drink another. This means that players can neither spam the same potion, or drink too many different buff potions for the same battle. This will enforce strategic planning and more tactical combat for players.

Thoughts?

[Joyce]

I'd say drinking a potion in combat should be possible, but you should take X amount of additional damage during the 'drinking period', you can't guard properly when you're thumbling with your pack!

[Greendude120]

Look at how Path of Exile uses potions. So far they've done everything right. It's what Diablo 3 should have been.

[Dark Crusade]

> Look at how Path of Exile uses potions. So far they've done everything right. It's what Diablo 3 should have been.

Just looked it up, definately interesting and original. I considered potions with multiple uses too, but not quite in their fashion, although it definately looks like it will work well in their game.

[Agoraphobic]

I don't mind if potions heal instantly or overtime. Without a cooldown on potions, it simply becomes a game of stacking as many potions as you can and popping them as fast as you can.

For example, in Diablo 2 during the barbarians on the mountain on the harder modes, I would literally drop as many potions on the ground as I could before the fight.

So I would run around casting spells, picking potions up, then drinking them constantly. Just my thoughts.

[Mal]

> I'd say drinking a potion in combat should be possible, but you should take X amount of additional damage during the 'drinking period', you can't guard properly when you're thumbling with your pack!

Really? I don't even.. You know what? I'll just face palm for you. Yes, it's certainly feasible for a person to fumble through their pack while being attacked; I'd limit this to people who accept that they're going to die anyway.

[Greendude120]

> I don't mind if potions heal instantly or overtime. Without a cooldown on potions, it simply becomes a game of stacking as many potions as you can and popping them as fast as you can.
>
> For example, in Diablo 2 during the barbarians on the mountain on the harder modes, I would literally drop as many potions on the ground as I could before the fight.
>
> So I would run around casting spells, picking potions up, then drinking them constantly. Just my thoughts.

What are u saying… I played D2 for 10 years. There is no cooldown on potions. Are u thinking of D3?

In d2, you can spam regular potions, or full rejuvs, and only full rejuvs instant heal. There is no reason to drop them then use them. You can hit the buttons "1" up to like 4 ot 5 times depending on your belt.

Maybe ur getting mixed up with another game.

[Agoraphobic]

You misread what I said, as I was giving Diablo 2 as an example of how a game can be about spamming potions without cooldowns for them.

On Mount Arreat I would have my bags and belt full, as well as litter potions all over the ground so I could run around and keep picking them up as I needed.

[Jeff]

> Really? I don't even.. You know what? I'll just face palm for you. Yes, it's certainly feasible for a person to fumble through their pack while being attacked; I'd limit this to people who accept that they're going to die anyway.

The thing is, if combat is a state that's judged by whether or not there are enemies aggro'd and nearby then you can be in combat but safely behind a rock or whatever so you can drink that potion. Of course, if you get hit in the face with a broadsword there's about zero chance you'll be able to finish drinking that potion.

Maybe you could have it so whenever you get hit you stop drinking your potion.

[DMF]

some times game play is too hard to have cool downs and if u always lose do u think they will still wanna play that game?

[Greendude120]

Theres not enough hard games out there. D3 is made for kids.

[Jeff]

> some times game play is too hard to have cool downs and if u always lose do u think they will still wanna play that game?

The game should be balanced so that you don't need to spam potions in order to survive.

[Dark Crusade]

> some times game play is too hard to have cool downs and if u always lose do u think they will still wanna play that game?

As Eckhard mentioned, the game shouldn't rely on spamming potions to be beatable. Potions should only give you a small edge in combat, and at least have some sort of strategy or condition.

[Murdoc]

To me its a matter of preference, as to how you want battles to play out. If potions can be instantly consumed with no cooldown level then the enemies should be considerably harder. Whereas if there is a cooldown and limit on when/how many you can use then the enemies would be have to be somewhat less powerful to compensate. I think making potions undrinkable in battle would just piss people off. However, a cooldown timer does make sense, and I think that alone would enhance battle. Besides, in reality, a person can hardly quaff a potion and then quickly quaff another etc without barfing or something. (im sure this is debateable)

Of course another idea would be to make the vitals randomized & based on a certain stat(s). That way a potion wouldnt always recover for the same amount, possibly very little, adding to battle suspense. That in addition to a cooldown timer would force players to think more about survival tactics, rather than just spamming potions.

[Dark Crusade]

> To me its a matter of preference, as to how you want battles to play out. If potions can be instantly consumed with no cooldown level then the enemies should be considerably harder.

But then potions are nothing but a mere chore and requirement. Players won't need to strategise, only spam potions, and if they have the funds to purchase enormous quantities of potions they will be able to monotonously confront enemies and bosses much stronger then them as long as they quaff potions as often as needed. They idealy could best any creature as long as they don't get one hitted.

> Whereas if there is a cooldown and limit on when/how many you can use then the enemies would be have to be somewhat less powerful to compensate. I think making potions undrinkable in battle would just piss people off. However, a cooldown timer does make sense, and I think that alone would enhance battle. Besides, in reality, a person can hardly quaff a potion and then quickly quaff another etc without barfing or something. (im sure this is debateable)

That ultimately would change the purpose of potions. They would more so be to buff up and heal between, before and after combat, as aside to getting 'second chances' in combat to best their foe before they are beaten. This would impose more strategy and tactics. Players will have to rely more on teamwork, their skills, and their choices in weapons and spells to win a battle, other then be able to compensate using potions.

[Greendude120]

Drinking potions outside of combat is stupid. The whole point is to heal to stay in the fight longer. And please people, stop comparing stuff to real life "oh you cant drink two in a row" or "you need to pick it up and drink it it takes time".. really? You want potions to be realistic but you dont mind the dragons, spells, massive inventory (does he insert a shield up his ass to carry more gear?), respawning from fatal blow, etc etc etc.

Potions were introduced to heal in combat because when ur out of combat u can just go to town and heal anyway.

[Dark Crusade]

> Potions were introduced to heal in combat because when ur out of combat u can just go to town and heal anyway.

To add to what's been said about drinking potions between battles, I'm sure that meant exactly it. You beat a group of enemies, your health is low, you drink a potion, move forward and fight another group. This means that you don't have to wait for slow passive health regeneration, or go back to town.

[Murdoc]

> Drinking potions outside of combat is stupid. The whole point is to heal to stay in the fight longer. And please people, stop comparing stuff to real life "oh you cant drink two in a row" or "you need to pick it up and drink it it takes time".. really? You want potions to be realistic but you dont mind the dragons, spells, massive inventory (does he insert a shield up his ass to carry more gear?), respawning from fatal blow, etc etc etc.

I was merely using reality as a reference for a game idea. I don't know about you but when I play a game that has realistic elements, I think that's cool because in real life you can't do this or that etc. I'm not saying its a rule you have to follow. If it was I would have cooldown on potions in Escalon, which I don't.

[Saga]

Voted.

I think with short drinking time you mean 1 sec?

[BeNjO]

i always think about bosses, i love to solo bosses, or two man them meaning i can chug potions to my hearts content, have nothing but 80% hp pots 20% mana pots in all inv space and just spam pots. If food is in the game i carry a stack for before and after boss fight healing. Never been able to rely on a healer.. unless he/she is been paid via items…

[Dark Crusade]

Interesting how diverse peoples votes are. It shows there's no 'right' way, it depends on the game and player.

> i always think about bosses, i love to solo bosses, or two man them meaning i can chug potions to my hearts content, have nothing but 80% hp pots 20% mana pots in all inv space and just spam pots. If food is in the game i carry a stack for before and after boss fight healing. Never been able to rely on a healer.. unless he/she is been paid via items…

Such games usually involve just standing still most the time and taking turns casting spells or hitting. In a theoretical game where you can dodge, and have to use a higher manner of tactics potion spamming wouldn't be required to solo a boss.

[MCADAMS]

The problem with not using potions in combat is that it then it sort of defeats the purpose of what the potion was designed to be: a quick, simple mechanism for healing as opposed to sitting down, having a meal, resting, etc. Assuming you have the code available, potions should heal over time with no cooldown and should be able to be used at any time. I'll bring up a couple game examples for my reasoning.

In Skyrim, potions have no cooldown and heal you immediately, and you can pause the game to drink them to boot. This reinforces your point of money = infinite life, and it is a poor game mechanic and would be especially poor in an online game where players are competing with each other. The instant heal mechanic creates more problems (mainly concerning balance) than it solves.

In WoW, potions heal you instantly, but have a cooldown. For example, a minor health potion can heal you for 100 health instantly, but then cannot be used for another 120 seconds. The problem with this is that your sustain is periodic, and one big heal every so often will result in less sustain than small ones rapidly. This could be an interesting mechanic for PvP, where each player has to use their potion at the exactly right moment to insure their survival, but of course that is up to you.

I think that League of Legends gets it right; having potions with no cooldowns that heal you overtime, and simply stack upon repeated use. The potion in LoL (I believe) heals you 150 hp over 10 seconds. If you drink another potion, it will simply become 300 hp over 30 seconds, and so on. This lets the player control their sustain, and suffer the consequences of not using their potions correctly. This leads to a player dying because of their own mistakes. not a game mechanic that will not let them heal themselves.

Well, that's what I think anyway. If you have the means to implement potions that heal over time (with heal over time spells already in EO I can't imagine how hard it would be to do so) by all means go for it.

[Jeff]

> In WoW, potions heal you instantly, but have a cooldown. For example, a minor health potion can heal you for 100 health instantly, but then cannot be used for another 120 seconds. The problem with this is that your sustain is periodic, and one big heal every so often will result in less sustain than small ones rapidly. This could be an interesting mechanic for PvP, where each player has to use their potion at the exactly right moment to insure their survival, but of course that is up to you.

The problem with this is that it essentially just acts as a health regen mechanic. Everyone can use it/buy it, and everyone will get that extra 100 health every 2 minutes. If potions were rare or something It'd be a little interesting.

> I think that League of Legends gets it right; having potions with no cooldowns that heal you overtime, and simply stack upon repeated use. The potion in LoL (I believe) heals you 150 hp over 10 seconds. If you drink another potion, it will simply become 300 hp over 30 seconds, and so on. This lets the player control their sustain, and suffer the consequences of not using their potions correctly. This leads to a player dying because of their own mistakes. not a game mechanic that will not let them heal themselves.

That works and is probably the simplest solution. However, If you add a cast time it puts another spin on it: Using the health potion has to be more efficient than not using it and instead attacking those few times. For tanks who deal little damage but have lots of defense, it would be very beneficial to take the health potion. For Glass Cannons on the other hand, it would probably be better to just attack those 4 times that you wouldn't be able to if you took the potion.

[Dark Crusade]

> I think that League of Legends gets it right; having potions with no cooldowns that heal you overtime, and simply stack upon repeated use. The potion in LoL (I believe) heals you 150 hp over 10 seconds. If you drink another potion, it will simply become 300 hp over 30 seconds, and so on. This lets the player control their sustain, and suffer the consequences of not using their potions correctly. This leads to a player dying because of their own mistakes. not a game mechanic that will not let them heal themselves.

I think that the method you've described just means that everyone optionally can use potions as a source to stack up health regeneration over long periods of time. Potions in my opinion shouldn't give any sort of permanant or unlimited buff, you should have to use it at the right time and have imposed restrictions. For example, I personally favor the idea of only using potions between battles or while not taking damage. It means that you can't spam them in battle to grind monsters you otherwise you wouldn't stand a chance against. If you wanted to use them in battle, you'd have to have friends to help you out and take hits from the monster so you could duck out for a moment to quaff a potion to get back into the battle. Or, between two battles, you'd drink one before moving into another battle.

[Synergy]

It depends how realistic the rest of your game is.

Personally I think potions should have a "heal x amount of x time" healing, with a cooldown of say.. 10 seconds if you drink too many too fast. Something to stop continuous spamming and so potion use requires some thought (not just mashing a hotkey).

I also think they should have a usage time, albeit very short and usable in combat. Realistically, you would only be able to use them outside of combat and there would be a usage time. In practice, people would just get fed up with that. I know I would.

In _The Witcher_ health potions are pretty horrible. You can use them in combat, but they have such a long usage time. It's about 3 - 5 seconds I think, which doesn't sound like a lot, but it feels it in game.

It's also a bit annoying that you stand there for 3 seconds merrily downing your liquor whilst there are 5 thugs smashing your knees in. In this case, I think they either needed to make potions unusable in combat, or not have a (long) usage time. I might try and take a screenshot of it.. It's quite amusing in some ways.

However, as I said in the beginning, it really depends how realistic (in terms of physics and scales, not magic and such) the game is.