Ships vs. Airships

[balliztik1]

I'm curious as to whether ships or airships are better in the eyes of the community. This isn't going to be a poll, because I don't really care about numbers. I want to hear arguments for one or the other.

The game setting in question is under construction. It's going to feature a lot of New World feel - exploration, piracy, natives, unknown lands, frontiers, etc. - set in a fantasy world. For instance, there will be guns, but also magic and swords. Now, the main means of transport in this game is going to be either ships or airships, but I can't decide which.

Personally, I find airships would be easier to use. With a regular ship, you have to worry about air, current, waves, weather, etc., resulting in a very complex system even for movement, let alone full-on sea combat. In addition, ships are made of wood, so with magic, all it takes is a well placed fireball to ruin what could be an epic fight. With airships, only air and weather really come into play, so things are much simpler. With things being simpler, combat can get more focus, with things such as air-boarding and ranged combat with cannons and such. Most airships can be easily justified to be protected from fire, at least more than regular ships (magic materials, metal, etc.).

I could also use a mix of both, with airships being much rarer and only having air docks in major cities and such, but I'm not sure. The main concept I'm trying to get past is the complexity of sailing on the seas. I'm not sure how that will go, so feel free to suggest whatever you can.

[Patrick]

But with the ships, you could make a minigame of piloting the ship which is a tricky but valuable skill.

[balliztik1]

@Knave:

> But with the ships, you could make a minigame of piloting the ship which is a tricky but valuable skill.

It's not going to be a minigame, though. I'm willing to design a system to do all this, but even just going somewhere via ship would be complicated. I'm looking for a balance between complexity and realism.

[Patrick]

What era is the game featured in?

[balliztik1]

Custom world of my design. High fantasy, but with lots of technology inspired by magic. Think Final Fantasy, almost - trains, airships, guns, and machines, but fighting with swords and magic as well. I used the New World historical period to somewhat define the feel of the era, but it's still got its differences.

[Patrick]

Yes. I see. The magic effected items are really expensive because few people can cast magic and swords are still in play as of this?

[Anna Comnena]

I would say it'd depend on the technological sophistication of the cultures in your game world. You can say a fireball magic attack would make sea ships worthless, but there could just as easily be magically enchanted wood, or magical shields or counter spells.

It's easier to imagine sailing ships than airships. For airships to work your culture would need to make that distinction that air itself is also a fluid to move through and float in; although we have known this philisophically and scientifically for some time now, it still even to us in the modern age, not directly inherent (or easily contradicted by culturally-trained "common sense").

[SawQuart]

I'm starting a pirate RPG, so I am suggesting that you don't use ships from an originality standpoint.

[balliztik1]

@נυиgℓєтσє:

> I'm starting a pirate RPG, so I am suggesting that you don't use ships from an originality standpoint.

From an originality standpoint, both have already been used. Making a ship in a game does not imply that you are copying other games or even any such trend.

@Anna:

> I would say it'd depend on the technological sophistication of the cultures in your game world. You can say a fireball magic attack would make sea ships worthless, but there could just as easily be magically enchanted wood, or magical shields or counter spells.
>
> It's easier to imagine sailing ships than airships. For airships to work your culture would need to make that distinction that air itself is also a fluid to move through and float in; although we have known this philisophically and scientifically for some time now, it still even to us in the modern age, not directly inherent (or easily contradicted by culturally-trained "common sense").

Well, the game world treats technology like magic, basically (or vice versa, really). They have schools devoted to engineering (though it's called something else). The game world has a train travel system, heavy machinery, firearms like cannons and simple pistols (though they don't use gunpowder - instead they use arcane substances of some sort), and the like. There will certainly be some aspects that feel almost steampunk about the world, minus the overly dramatic use of gears and cogs. All in all, it's a world about exploration.

However, my main concern was ship battles. As one of the main themes is piracy in a new world, I want to create a nice system for ship battles. However, since individual players won't own ships (likely), I want to create something rather simple, I just don't know how. Like I mentioned above, a sea battle involves turning your ship based on the wind and currents, then broadsiding your enemies, etc. Airships seemed an easy way to subvert that by instead just having two massive flying machines that could basically turn on a dime, reducing the complexity greatly as far as movement goes, freeing most of the battle development for just making sure the combat is engaging without seeming too much like a minigame or a completely different game in itself. The game is not about piracy, but as you travel to different areas, there will undoubtedly be conflicts on the high seas. I want to find a way to make it seem like it's just a danger of traveling rather than a whole separate system.

My primary concern are things like stats and such. It'd be simple to implement stats for like "cannon firing" and "navigation", but since this is such a minor aspect, I don't want to overdevelop for such a little thing.

[Gwen]

Airship seems more steampunk. There needs to be more steampunk.

[Gohan]

@Ballie:

> I'm curious as to whether ships or airships are better in the eyes of the community. This isn't going to be a poll, because I don't really care about numbers. I want to hear arguments for one or the other.
>
> The game setting in question is under construction. It's going to feature a lot of New World feel - exploration, piracy, natives, unknown lands, frontiers, etc. - set in a fantasy world. For instance, there will be guns, but also magic and swords. Now, the main means of transport in this game is going to be either ships or airships, but I can't decide which.
>
> Personally, I find airships would be easier to use. With a regular ship, you have to worry about air, current, waves, weather, etc., resulting in a very complex system even for movement, let alone full-on sea combat. In addition, ships are made of wood, so with magic, all it takes is a well placed fireball to ruin what could be an epic fight. With airships, only air and weather really come into play, so things are much simpler. With things being simpler, combat can get more focus, with things such as air-boarding and ranged combat with cannons and such. Most airships can be easily justified to be protected from fire, at least more than regular ships (magic materials, metal, etc.).
>
> I could also use a mix of both, with airships being much rarer and only having air docks in major cities and such, but I'm not sure. The main concept I'm trying to get past is the complexity of sailing on the seas. I'm not sure how that will go, so feel free to suggest whatever you can.

BOTH! Use both. You have to use both. I will slap the @#$% outta you if don't use both  XD

Though ships on the sea are much harder to control than a simple airships, they are also simpler because the movement is more limited. I remember back on Perfect World, combat was simple on the surface, but past level 30 you had a few aerial battles to do, and it was complicated because there are more places to move. Also, a ship on the sea has the advantage that if you run out of fuel, you don't have to crash land. You can just call for help on the radio and sit there figuring out who you will eat first if you run out of food.

[shadowwulf]

It really depends on where you want that balance of fantasy and realism. From your first post I would believe airships would be best, but then by your desire for realism, ships might be the way to go…

Now, If you want to take the middle ground you could make realistic airships like zeppelines.

My vote goes for the challenge of having Airships but making them seem like a real possibility.

Plan B? airships are all replicas of Koopa's doomship!

[Adulese Games]

@uılɐpuǝʍƃ:

> Airship seems more steampunk. There needs to be more steampunk.

My thoughts exactly. I mean, this thing beats out regular ships easily.


- Adulese

[azkanan]

The spray of the bow, the warm, salty air, the rushing air against your face, the blue horizon yonder, the knowledge of the sea below being so wonderous, yet so deadly if for a slip over the edge.

The sailship is not beatable, not by a long shot.

Edit; Arguement:

Airships can travel across land. Sailships can't. Without boundaries, the game can actually be **too** open - ie, it's too easy. Therefore, making sailing a ship far more tactical in travelling.

Sailship warfare is awesome, because they just are - the chase, the clash, the cannons, the archers, the fireballs vs magic shields - and then the swords when mounting happens.
This with airships is far more complicated, not only because of Z-levels, but also because a single arrow can ruin your balloon.

Dolphins, Whales, mermaids and the occasional dragon… all of that good stuff to encounter on your travels.
Birds, bees... and the ocassional dragon?

*shrugs*

[Myron]

Shoot the Propeller of the Airship and it's goodbye for the whole crew. Shoot the sails of a normal Ship or the engine, its stops moving. Shoot the ship to hell, it will sink but you can survive.

But you can also be safe with a parachute, but I think I rather enjoy a normal ship then be in the air with an Airship in a storm.

[azkanan]

@Rushεr:

> Shoot the Propeller of the Airship and it's goodbye for the whole crew. Shoot the sails of a normal Ship or the engine, its stops moving. Shoot the ship to hell, it will sink but you can survive.
>
> But you can also be safe with a parachute, but I think I rather enjoy a normal ship then be in the air with an Airship in a storm.

Propellor or balloon.*

Shoot a ship sail out, and you have time to rebuild afterwards - you don't with an airship.

[Myron]

I'll take that chance like I rather sink then fall down from the Sky.

[azkanan]

@Rushεr:

> I'll take that chance like I rather sink then fall down from the Sky.

With over 60% of the world being water, t'is likely you'll sink, too. ;)

[Myron]

Neh, and 100% of the world above the earth and water is the sky, so it goes same for the airships.  ;)

[shadoweight]

@Rodriguez:

> @uılɐpuǝʍƃ:
>
> > Airship seems more steampunk. There needs to be more steampunk.
>
> My thoughts exactly. I mean, this thing beats out regular ships easily.
>
> 
>
> - Adulese

I didn't see a flight rock there.

[balliztik1]

More than likely an airship would be powered by magic, not machinery.

I do believe I'm going to take the "both" route, though. Ships will be fairly common, and airships will be owned only by large companies, guilds, or rich individuals. This will make sure, like Azkanan pointed out, that travel is not too easy, but there are still options. Airships will still be present and play a large role, but most often, players will be left to wonder about them, as they will never get to use one until they earn the trust of the owners, etc. I feel like that in itself will create a sort of wonder within the game world.

Besides, ships are so much easier to write things for. The smell of salt and the shouts of sailors is a lot easier to talk about than…whatever the hell you'd hear on an airship. I mean, really? What would you hear on an airship? :-\

[shadoweight]

The wind blowing in your hair the sun tanning you skin. You smell the sulfur in the air from your last encounter with a dragon. The sky is not just a place it is a way of life.

[Robin]

@Landon:

> the sun tanning you skin

If you can hear the sun tanning your skin, you're getting burnt.

[shadoweight]

i never said you heard it

[Robin]

@Ballie:

> What would you hear on an airship? :-\

@Landon:

> The wind blowing in your hair the sun tanning you skin.