Level-Up Frequency VS Content [Poll]

[Dark Crusade]

I'm curious as to hear preferences about level-up frequency VS content for each level. Allow me to explain-

Do you as a player, prefer an ORPG in which levelling up is easy and frequent, however there is less new items and content available, or vice versa? For this example we'll pretend that each 'level-up', the player gets 5 attribute points. In the scenario where 'levelling' is easy, the attribute points will buy you less increases to stats such as health, and will only open up a handful of new content including items you may be able to use due to your attribute increases. Previous NPCs you found difficult to conquer still will likely be a rough challenge, and you probably won't be able to learn new special skills every level.

Or, would you prefer levelling to be slower, but more meaningful and a larger milestone? You'll have to think carefully which attributes to put up, since they come less frequently, however there will be a lot more items available to you, and your new gear might give you a better chance against a group of enemies or zones you found challenging. You'll earn a new skill every single level also.

For [http://www.touchofdeathforums.com/community/index.php?/topic/130412-elandor-chronicles/](http://www.touchofdeathforums.com/community/index.php?/topic/130412-elandor-chronicles/), I've designed it so that levelling will be less frequent, however there will be a lot more content for each level. This also includes zones. Unlike a lot of games, you won't be restricted to one or two zones to match your level. Instead you'll be able to find challenging content spread out for you to explore. The world won't be 'linear scaled'. Nonetheless, let's hear those opinions!

If you have any questions, I'd be more then happy to answer!

[Mal]

Why not both? A tolerable leveling speed in which you're rewarded for COMPLETING content (quests, finding items, luck in general, etc) that rewards you will relatively small upgrades, while obtaining a new level or milestone will reward you with larger (more valuable) upgrades?

[Vus]

I think that it depends a lot on a game. If you don't plan to play the game hardcore way or for a long time, I would prefer spending attribute points the way I dont have to think it trough that much. I like this they way like it is in wow for example, when spending your points carefully, you can get really powerful against something, but when you dont care that much, you are not weak either. Also ability to reset those is something I use a lot in games if I play them lot. I also usually play games just for a while when I am bored or want to relax. In this case I prefer easier way, but when leveling is too easy, it isn't much fun for me either.

I choose moderate way, when leveling is too slow, casual players can get bored easily, but when its too fast, you may not enjoy the actual game that much.

I'm also aiming for more content with my game, but I don't want it to take too long either.

Hope I explained myself clearly. 

EDIT: I also agree with budweiser

[Dark Crusade]

> Why not both? A tolerable leveling speed in which you're rewarded for COMPLETING content (quests, finding items, luck in general, etc) that rewards you will relatively small upgrades, while obtaining a new level or milestone will reward you with larger (more valuable) upgrades?

Absolutely, a 'plateau' of character development and item/upgrade attainment between levels would be mundane. Well said.

> I think that it depends a lot on a game. If you don't plan to play the game hardcore way or for a long time, I would prefer spending attribute points the way I dont have to think it trough that much. I like this they way like it is in wow for example, when spending your points carefully, you can get really powerful against something, but when you dont care that much, you are not weak either. Also ability to reset those is something I use a lot in games if I play them lot. I also usually play games just for a while when I am bored or want to relax. In this case I prefer easier way, but when leveling is too easy, it isn't much fun for me either.
>
> I choose moderate way, when leveling is too slow, casual players can get bored easily, but when its too fast, you may not enjoy the actual game that much.
>
> I'm also aiming for more content with my game, but I don't want it to take too long either.
>
> Hope I explained myself clearly. 

Definately. One thing I dislike in games also is when only every '2' or '5' levels matter. Some examples were Dungeons and Dragons online, every 2 levels (or 10 'ranks') a plethora of new items were available to the players, but between there was absolutely nothing new. Most 'ranks' as they were called, were almost completely unnessesary. You only gained 1 skill point, and most 'skills' cost a lot more then 1 skill point, especially in later levels. Forget which other game it was, but there was another where every 5 levels a new hoard of items came available.

I personally enjoy the idea of there's a handful of new items available for every attribute point quantity. If you got say… '3' attribute points per level, each one you decide to put in strength for example, would open a handful of new armor and weapons you could now use/equip. That way, you work towards what sort of items you want to be able to use sooner, and could work toward creating your own playstyle and build, or a balance between.

[Guest]

Well there's a problem there because you have to find an absolute middle for both. If it takes too long to "level up" players will get bored and might give up before reaching max level so you have to have lots of content with lots of _variety_ which is what most content designers leave out. I'd personally say content is more important but it has to be varied.

[Joyce]

I don't think the real game should be at the level cap though. If you keep it varied and balanced inbetween, reaching the cap won't matter much and you can spread out content over much larger areas and really let the player explore, rather than being forced to level to "get to the real stuff" as some people say. If there is no large benefit to being max level, your players could spend more time exploring and doing what they enjoy most. Be it the usual end-game rabble of doing dungeons, or exploring zones they simply enjoy.

Personally, I feel like in the type of setting you're trying to make levelling should take a while. Sure, it ticks some of the modern MMO hoppers off. But they'll get mad at you for changing anything in a content update and leave over that anyway. They always do.. But the main audience your game seems tailored to seems like people that remember the older games, or people that simply liked the style of them. Would rush levelling and some bland end game grind/content really be fun in this? When you could make it take much longer and have a large rich world available to explore, and some instances/dungeons that scale along with you, rather than requiring you to reach the cap or a certain level to enjoy it all.

And ignore the rant/rambling, I'm tired and this is the best I can come up with right now. 

[iSnow]

A game developer should always balance. The levelling of a player usually is based on high value quests and dungeons, so, whatever high points you have in gameplay should be important and relevant to the story or purpose of the player to make a player feel like the level-up was fun and they truly got somewhere in the game. Levelling should never have small amounts of EXP needed either because you should match the story and progression of the game to how much EXP they get.

[Dark Crusade]

Thanks for the contribution guys, taking everyones preference and opinion on board.

[Nook]

I favor a model in which the time required to level doesn't grow exponentially. If the cap were at 50, for example, the half way point should be at about 25-30 instead of the 40's, as the latter usually results in 1) a content-crunched, grindy endgame or 2) a grindy journey to a content-heavy endgame.

[Dark Crusade]

Yeah I agree, in fact I've never been a fan of any instance where you have to be a specific level to 'do' certain things. There are so many games where you have to be a specific level just to start doing dungeons even.

[Greendude120]

You can do both. In Diablo 2 using efficient leveling up techniques, you could gain several levels in one play session and still get 5 attributes +1 skill point. The trick is to make the point for stats worth less. They improve you slightly or gives you access to high stat req items.

It felt rewarding each level, and levels were frequent. We could even get faster lvl up areas as a high level because we knew the xp zones so well.

It is critical that the last handful of levels take a long time. Reaching level cap is lame if everyone can do it.

[Dark Crusade]

> You can do both. In Diablo 2 using efficient leveling up techniques, you could gain several levels in one play session and still get 5 attributes +1 skill point. The trick is to make the point for stats worth less. They improve you slightly or gives you access to high stat req items.
>
> It felt rewarding each level, and levels were frequent. We could even get faster lvl up areas as a high level because we knew the xp zones so well.
>
> It is critical that the last handful of levels take a long time. Reaching level cap is lame if everyone can do it.

Diablo 2 had a very high exponential levelling up system. The first few levels were easy to level up, but then it took a long time later. The attribute points weren't worth much. if they are worth less, then that just makes levelling up less interesting. Also content isn't limited to attributes and skills. New zones, creatures, dungeons and items are important for each level. And Diablo 2's randomised loot doesn't fit all examples of the debate, because a lot of typical ORPGs which are more specific to the developers on this forum and others alike, have more 'static' items, which aren't randomised.

[Nook]

> It is critical that the last handful of levels take a long time. Reaching level cap is lame if everyone can do it.

Since when is it critical to make a game that forces someone to grind or give up?

Have the cap mark the end of fresh content. Save the grind for the endgame.