Homicidal Monkey Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 well, as I see it, if you believe in the revised big bang theory in which there originated a superparticle which created in order **from itself.** First: all the stars, planets and sun. Second: the oceans and the earth. Third: Simple creatures. Fourth: sea life. Fifth: life on land. Sixth: man. Does this sound similar to some other theory of creation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshKlaz Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Wow…The ignorance in some of these posts is quite astounding :(We believe in God because we want something after death, hmm? That is quite sad, I'm sorry you were brought up to think that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshKlaz Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Sorry for the DP, but just to address two of the points AdrianC brought up…> 2\. God created everything, right? (well, earth, humanity, etc). And he knows everything, right? So when he created us, he intentionally made some of us "evil" so that we would go to hell, right?Before you go about saying such truly ignorant things, you should read the Bible. And I'm not saying that to try to be a Bible-thumper, but if you're going to say things like that that make it obvious you don't know what you're talking about, no-one will want to take you seriously. Start with Genesis 1:1.> 3\. Allot of religious people say that God created everything, because it would be too hard for the big bang, evolution, etc take place, just because of random events. What they don't understand is that this has been going on for billions of yrs, but anyway, that's not what I'm trying to say. Now if the earth was too complicated to be the result of random events, and God created it, then who created God? Was he created by a series of random events? Wouldn't he be even more complicated to explain? etcetcetcOne could argue the same about whatever "objects" caused the big bang! Where did the first speck of life come from? Or even the first speck? I don't know. That is one of those questions I just accept as being unanswerable for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianC Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Could you give explain what it says in genesis 1:1, I don't care enough for this subject to actually read it.Also, why did something have to cause the big bang? Maybe it just was, for no reason.Just because I don't understand something doesn't mean I should start believing that there's a God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khachaturian Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Genesis 1:1 = the beggining of the bible i'm pretty sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khachaturian Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 i think what Josh meant is that you should read the bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 you're probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techno 5.0 Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 but u cannot read the bible al through.parts of it relate to different styles of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khachaturian Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 @Ninja-Tech:> but u cannot read the bible al through.Sure you can, i know so many people that have read the whole bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknisss Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 @Ninja-Tech:> but u cannot read the bible al through.> parts of it relate to different styles of life.lol its a book…of course you can read the whole thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianC Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 lol, can you just talk a bit about what it says? I'm not going to read it… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khachaturian Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 To talk a bit about what it says?Well for one, it talks about God.Dude i dont know its hard to sum it up in 'a bit'Read it, its actually a pretty good read, I read a bit of it a couple years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianC Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Well he quoted me, and said I was wrong. And then he said I should read the bible because I don't know what I'm talking about. So I'm just asking someone to explain to me how am I wrong?I can accept the I made a mistake, if you can prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khachaturian Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I think he meant that you should read the bible to back up your own arguementsSeeing your basing them off your own experiences/thoughts/ etcAnd he said read the bible because its got all the information there and you would understand what your talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianC Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Well yeah, but he said:> Before you go about saying such truly ignorant things, you should read the Bible. And I'm not saying that to try to be a Bible-thumper, but if you're going to say things like that that make it obvious you don't know what you're talking about, no-one will want to take you seriously. Start with Genesis 1:1.right after quoting something I said.So I was wondering, how was I wrong. He didn't back up his argument with anything other than "read the Bible". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khachaturian Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Beats meBut i'm saying take his advice :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianC Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Lol, anyway.I tried looking online, but I found allot of different books, so I just gave up. There are many interpretations of the bible…Ah well, I guess I'll just wait for him to come back online, and explain what he meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshKlaz Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 What I mean is that you said God created us evil. That alone shows that you do not know what you're talking about in this subject. God created us in his image, basically meaning that we were good before the Fall. Also note that being made in his image doesn't mean we were God. It simply means we were LIKE God. Think of us being made in his image as kind of like a portrait of someone. The portrait will never be the same "quality" as the actual person.The Fall is when Adam and Eve bit from the forbidden fruit, thus disobeying God. God didn't cause this.Now I'm no theologian, so if you'd like to know more, there's a great deal of books on the subject, and you'd learn more from them than you would from me. Try searching "why did adam and eve sin if they were like god" on Google, there's quite a few articles that will help answer your questions.And here is a reliable version of Genesis. I'd recommend reading it. It's the KJV (King James Version). I prefer NIV (New International Version), but that's just personal preference.[Genesis](http://etext.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/KjvGene.html) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianC Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Ok, I didn't really say that, but lets go with it.A few questions.Is God all powerful?Does God know everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshKlaz Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Actually, yes you did. I even quoted you on it.Yes.Yes again.Your next question is "Than why did go ahead with Adam and Eve if he knew they were going to sin?". Or something like that.My answer is that I don't know what his plan is and I don't know why he does everything he does. No-one does. Which is why I need to have faith in Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknisss Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 @ﾉ◊ㄅｻúﾚ∆z:> Actually, yes you did. I even quoted you on it.> > Yes.> > Yes again.> > Your next question is "Than why did go ahead with Adam and Eve if he knew they were going to sin?". Or something like that.> > My answer is that I don't know what his plan is and I don't know why he does everything he does. No-one does. Which is why I need to have faith in Him.He might ask, "Why have faith in a god when your not sure about his plans?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianC Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Actually this is what I'm going to say:He knows that people will sin, he created humanity to be imperfect. So because he created us to be imperfect, those who sin (God knew they would sin when he created them) will burn in hell forever. Does that seem fair to you? If that is true, then his heaven is not one I would like to be part of.Quote: My answer is that I don't know what his plan is and I don't know why he does everything he does. No-one does. Which is why I need to have faith in Him.And you were flaming me, saying I have no clue what I'm talkin about, so… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshKlaz Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Lol, you don't have a clue what you're talking about, at least when it comes to your "burning in hell" theory. Read [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Grace#Calvinism_and_Arminianism). That is what I believe. Obviously you were brought up in a more extreme catholic environment, so what you read may be a shock.And just want to say, not once did I flame you. Saying that you don't know what you're talking about was a statement, I didn't mean it to insult you.I'm not trying to force my beliefs on you, and I respect your position. I merely ask that you respect mine, and get your facts straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianC Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 First, I was not brought up in a catholic environment, my mom is a christian orthodox. I was assuming you are catholic, as most people are.Second, right now I'm crazy tired, didn't get enough sleep last night, and now its 11pm so I might have misread the doc you have provided. Please correct me if I did, I was really having a hard time reading it.I read this: ## Salvation is ultimately obtained from no other source than by the mere willingness of God to grant it to some, although it is not obtained by others.But then I read: Arminius taught that God's grace was offered to all, and that it could be rejected by a man's will.So I'm guessing you believe the second part right?Wasn't the man's will also created by God?You keep saying I have no clue what I'm talking about, but in the end, this is what matters:You said that God is all powerful and all knowing.Therefore, he knew some of us would reject him, when he created us. He also knew some would sin when he created us.You believe there is a Hell, right? (didn't say anywhere in that article that there is no Hell so…)My argument still stands then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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