Mapping Tools

[RetroX]

since Mapping is a big part of gamecreation it would be nice if the number of tools could be expanded.

Idea 1 (check edge):
When in a map it would be usefull if you can check the top row of the map below (or the left most row on the map to the right, and so on). This saves time (and some bandwith) because it is no longer needed to save the map and walk onto the next screen to check.

Idea 2 (paintbrush)
It would be nice to have a paintbrush tool of some sort. Just select 1 tile, enter the width and heigth (in the amount of tiles) and with 1 click "painting" large areas.
-additional: scatter (to scatter random x% of the tile within a selected area of x by y) - very usefull for things like stones, mushrooms, mosses…)

Idea 3 (custom mapsize)
Currently there is one mapsize that can be set for all maps. Since i use a lot of houses (and other indoor constructions) it would be nice to have smaller maps for these things. It also would/could save bandwith. The downside to this idea is that maps itself need a value to store it's size. To make older maps compatible it would be relative simple to add "if no CustomMapSize then standardsize = x"

Idea 4 (toggle visability of layers)
It would be nice to change the visability of layers to check under a certain layer. Very usefull for animating and realy crowded maps (with all layers containg lots of tiles) and with script changing tiles.
addional: toggle mapattributes (like blocking) to make travel on map while editing a bit friendlier.

Idea 5 (memorize/store map objects [or "stamps")
It would be nice if some tile sequences could be stored for later use. For example: Tree, existing in 9 tiles. It would be nice to store: tile 1-3 (layer on top of char), tile 4-6 (layer on top of char), tile 7-9 (layer on mask 1), tile 8 blocked. This minimap of 9 tiles can be used as a sort of "stamp" on different maps without having to click 5 times to make a single tree.

[RetroX]

While mapping i thougth of a few more things that would speed up mapping and improve some gameplay.

1\. Tool: An Undo option for the editor

2\. Tool: Adjust Tile properties (like Warp, Sign, Notice)  [instead of removing them and place a new one]

3\. Attribute: Scripted Block : Same as scripted tile but then with a Block flag. The script can be triggerd by using the action key [control] when standing next to it. (a bit like the sign option).

4\. Attribute: UserBlock : Same as Block but NPCs can move onto the block. Example usage: firecreature can move trough lava but user can not.

5\. Attribute: Grow : itemproducing tile, vars: speed/time, item, amount. In a set amount of time the tile produces an item. Example usage: fruits grown on trees, herbs on grass, gems/ore on stone

6\. Attribute Property: Sign : i would be nice to set the output type [popup window/chat] of a sign. When setting up a sign, checking box: display to chat & display to screen.

[RetroX]

Some fuctions i missed while trying some stuff out.

1\. Sort and/or filter option within the npclist (at mapproperties). Very usefull for placing specific npcs (like friendlies in towns).

2\. DirX/VB can modify images rather easy. It would be great to have a "map thumbnail" option. By button or by command making a "screenshot" of the total map. However reduced to 5 or 10 % (output as Thumb_mapnumber.bmp or something). Very nice to produce worldmaps.

I know i started this thread for posting tools that can improve mapping but i do list some other ideas here also.

3\. Show amount on inventory for stackable (and curency) items on the image itself. [perhaps an option that can be toggled from within data.ini]

4\. NPC that can use arrows [or other items that can be shot]

5\. New NPC Behavior: flea when attacked

6\. At the "New Account" screen: a checkbox for "Accept ServerRules". (and clicking on the term server rules opens window with basic serverrules.

7\. Cursefilter (for chat, usernames, playernames, guildnames)

8\. For servermanagement (and to prevent to much lag) it would be usefull to be able to check pingtimes in an easy way. ~~"Ingame" by command: /ping username, from the server a button with a list that can be refreshed by clicking a button.~~
Code is finnished by me (yay): http://www.touchofdeathforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,34054.msg313176.html#msg313176

9\. Ping treshold. ~~When connecting do an automated pingcheck. When pingtime is higher then set by server then do not connect.~~
Code is finnished by me (yay): http://www.touchofdeathforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,34054.msg313176.html#msg313176

10\. Ingame paintings. User can make unique painting (say 24x24  x32 colors) with an ingame painttool. Paintings be saved on servers.

11\. New Tile Attribute: Trashbin - all items left on a tile with this attribute is deleted permanently. (Good use when dealing with "unique items" like paintings)

last (for now)

12\. Music: Item (say, flute) when clicked it displays a stave (? bar to displays musicnnotes). User needs to set a few notes and click play to play the sequens.
- when a certain series of notes [with the right instrument] is used it starts a scripts/get item/etcetera
- instruments can be combined with real sounds (stored with client). "Singing can even be gender specific".
Dont know if all tones need to be added for each instrument or VB can access MIDI tables?

[RetroX]

And again a few more ideas. These are not mapping related but i like to keep my ideas organised in one topic.

1\. Bio/Profilewindow (a bit like /info but then "graphical"). Look nicer and saves space in the chat.

2\. Pointsystem. (based on scores for specific actions, like: leveling, pk, quests, skills) Rankings are good for competition within games. (could be a part of the bio/profile window)

3\. Medals (displayed at the bio/profile window). Just for fun. Players can earn "medals" (like a 16x16 pixel image with a 'tooltip' for a discription. Medals can for example be earned by gaining certain levels, completing quests, by killing x npcs, by killing x players, for getting killed x times, for getting jailed x times, et cetera, for mastering skills. Can even be more intergrated for quests (you need a specific medal for even beginning a quest).

4\. Jail/Mute window with TIMER and History
It would be nice to have a windows to select a player, select penalty (fine [cashreduction],mute,jail [opt ban]. When the windows is open and a player is selected i realy would like to know previous offences. So displaying a list of earlier punishment would be great. When a punishment is selected (say jail) it would be nice to enter a reason [optional] but also set a timer [2 options: online time spent, real time spent]. This way it is not necesery to have an admin online for unjailing or unmuting. Best reason is probably: when timer is set it is not possible to "forget" an muted or jailed player.

[xeross]

1, 2, 3 can be scripted with SS

[RetroX]

@Xeross:

> 1, 2, 3 can be scripted with SS

Please cut the spam. I got the skills to design all this but dont have the time. Since you have time to spam i sugest you work on some scripts and post them for the benefits of all.

(!#$$%%# man, what do i hate spammers ;) )

[xeross]

@RetroX:

> Please cut the spam. I got the skills to design all this but dont have the time. Since you have time to spam i sugest you work on some scripts and post them for the benefits of all.
>
> (!#$$%%# man, what do i hate spammers ;) )

I'm just saying it can also be done in sadscript what's spam about that it's just additional information.
Also your post is more spam then mine was, yes and this one is also partially off-topic

But the point system etc dont have anything to do with the map editor that this thread was about

[RetroX]

@Xeross:

> I'm just saying it can also be done in sadscript what's spam about that it's just additional information.
> Also your post is more spam then mine was, yes and this one is also partially off-topic
>
> But the point system etc dont have anything to do with the map editor that this thread was about

Stating useless facts doesnt make it on-topic… I know it can be done by scripting. It can be done by programming also.

Also, your own comment about the point system in this thread proves you are not reading the full topic. You could have read the reason i posted "off topic". The thread was started by... me... the only posts so far in this thread are by.... me...

Indeed, i know, your not used to someone keeping nice clean threads and forums, sorry for that, i'll try to make some more useless comments and start new threads because readers are confused when replys are not 100% about the topic title.

(can a mod clean up this thread. thanks.)

[unnown]

@RetroX:

> since Mapping is a big part of gamecreation it would be nice if the number of tools could be expanded.
>
> Idea 1 (check edge):
> When in a map it would be usefull if you can check the top row of the map below (or the left most row on the map to the right, and so on). This saves time (and some bandwith) because it is no longer needed to save the map and walk onto the next screen to check.
>
> Idea 2 (paintbrush)
> It would be nice to have a paintbrush tool of some sort. Just select 1 tile, enter the width and heigth (in the amount of tiles) and with 1 click "painting" large areas.
> -additional: scatter (to scatter random x% of the tile within a selected area of x by y) - very usefull for things like stones, mushrooms, mosses…)
>
> Idea 3 (custom mapsize)
> Currently there is one mapsize that can be set for all maps. Since i use a lot of houses (and other indoor constructions) it would be nice to have smaller maps for these things. It also would/could save bandwith. The downside to this idea is that maps itself need a value to store it's size. To make older maps compatible it would be relative simple to add "if no CustomMapSize then standardsize = x"
>
> Idea 4 (toggle visability of layers)
> It would be nice to change the visability of layers to check under a certain layer. Very usefull for animating and realy crowded maps (with all layers containg lots of tiles) and with script changing tiles.
> addional: toggle mapattributes (like blocking) to make travel on map while editing a bit friendlier.
>
> Idea 5 (memorize/store map objects [or "stamps")
> It would be nice if some tile sequences could be stored for later use. For example: Tree, existing in 9 tiles. It would be nice to store: tile 1-3 (layer on top of char), tile 4-6 (layer on top of char), tile 7-9 (layer on mask 1), tile 8 blocked. This minimap of 9 tiles can be used as a sort of "stamp" on different maps without having to click 5 times to make a single tree.
> _3 will prop never happen bcause it's just something not done_

[munro]

@RetroX:

> Please cut the spam. I got the skills to design all this but dont have the time. Since you have time to spam i sugest you work on some scripts and post them for the benefits of all.
>
> (!#$$%%# man, what do i hate spammers ;) )

That right there, your attitude towards Xeross, made me close notepad and stop scripting what you wanted.

[AdrianC]

@RetroX:

> Please cut the spam. I got the skills to design all this but dont have the time. Since you have time to spam i sugest you work on some scripts and post them for the benefits of all.
>
> (!#$$%%# man, what do i hate spammers ;) )

Maybe game design is not right for you then?

[munro]

@RetroX:

> Please cut the spam. I got the skills to design all this but dont have the time. Since you have time to spam i sugest you work on some scripts and post them for the benefits of all.
>
> (!#$$%%# man, what do i hate spammers ;) )

ps: I suggest you learn to script instead of complaining about how other's are not scripting it for you.

[Godsendmaster]

@RetroX:

> Please cut the spam. I got the skills to design all this but dont have the time. Since you have time to spam i sugest you work on some scripts and post them for the benefits of all.
>
> (!#$$%%# man, what do i hate spammers ;) )

That is the most hopeless thing ive ever heard… The point of scripting is to take time, you dont use others time to get the script you want, or you dont get the script you want. You must not be as good as a scripter as you think then... Real scripters know the time and effort put into scripting.

[RetroX]

I just want to make clear: If someone stops or refuses help on scripting becouse i can't stand spammers then that is not a problem of mine.

This part of the forum is the "wish list". Not a "requests a script" forum. This forum is ment to suggest idea's for developers.

The reason of posting my ideas is not expecting others (users or developers) to deliver fully working scripts. It is posted to inspire developers and other users. And to open discussion on how to improve eclipse (and the games it produces).

I can only spent a few houres on scripting, i dont have lots of time. Its a hobby of mine. Besides this I got a job, a wife and a home. Call me a softy but i choose my wife over scripting/programming  ;)

back on topic.

@unnown:

> 3 will prop never happen bcause it's just something not done

Why do you think is it "not done"?
I checked the eclipse spin-off engine's, esylum (konfuze), forum and it seems they have got it working….

[shadowwulf]

the big issue with #3…

better mappers will not make a new map for the inside of the building... they knwo how to use roof type attributes

[RetroX]

Adding a var to the mapfile with its size increases mapsize with 10 bytes or so. When using a map smaller then standard it can save a lot of bandwith.
(say a 20x20 instead of a normal 50x50 -> 20x20 = 400 spaces x layers, against 50x50 = 2500 spaces x layers. Just on the spaces its a reduction of 2100\. That saves about 600%.)

It is not needed to remap old maps. When the var is not set the standard size can be used.

I am truly hoping that more maps in the future are made then currently exist…  :)

When servers are crowded (20 users or more) or when users from different continents are playing then it is welcom to reduce any lag. This can be done by saving memory and bandwith on the server. This suggestion is a way to tackle the problem before it actualy becomes a problem for larger games.

[shadowwulf]

when its normal to even see 20 users on an eclipse game.. im sure it would be considered… but no where near that kind of player base has been seen on any EE game that wasnt already heavily resourced...

[RetroX]

What you're saying is, its a good idea but the priority of the dev team is on other game elements?

How about the other idea's, are there any that perhaps can make it to the 3.0 version?

[shadowwulf]

@RetroX:

> since Mapping is a big part of gamecreation it would be nice if the number of tools could be expanded.
>
> Idea 1 (check edge):
> When in a map it would be usefull if you can check the top row of the map below (or the left most row on the map to the right, and so on). This saves time (and some bandwith) because it is no longer needed to save the map and walk onto the next screen to check.

So do you mean to preload the adjacent maps? or so that you seamlessly travel onto the next maps?
Either way it isnt tha practical.
method 1: use large maps(100x100 has been tested with no lag) so that map transition islimited
method 2: limit map size to 40x40, load time should me almost instant

@RetroX:

> Idea 2 (paintbrush)
> It would be nice to have a paintbrush tool of some sort. Just select 1 tile, enter the width and heigth (in the amount of tiles) and with 1 click "painting" large areas.
> -additional: scatter (to scatter random x% of the tile within a selected area of x by y) - very usefull for things like stones, mushrooms, mosses…)

honestly it sounds good at first. then i thought about actually using it…
then having to go and remove those mushrooms that accidentally loaded on bad areas...
i cant think of many times when this would have actually come in handy since the few places this sounded good(some fields) i had randomly placed sime flowers about and then went over the entire mape about 12 times until i felt it looked natural... you cant just randomly slap stuff around like this tool would do...

@RetroX:

> Idea 3 (custom mapsize)
> Currently there is one mapsize that can be set for all maps. Since i use a lot of houses (and other indoor constructions) it would be nice to have smaller maps for these things. It also would/could save bandwith. The downside to this idea is that maps itself need a value to store it's size. To make older maps compatible it would be relative simple to add "if no CustomMapSize then standardsize = x"

already discussed earlier

@RetroX:

> Idea 4 (toggle visability of layers)
> It would be nice to change the visability of layers to check under a certain layer. Very usefull for animating and realy crowded maps (with all layers containg lots of tiles) and with script changing tiles.
> addional: toggle mapattributes (like blocking) to make travel on map while editing a bit friendlier.

maybe… i would have to see it in action to really get a feel for it being useful... you should really map lowest layer first then up...(or mask1 up then add ground last)

for easier walking i saw a post of how they used a classblock instead of a block attribute... never tried it. they said it allowed them to use a special admin only class that could walk though the blocked area... dont know about NPCs though.
@RetroX:

> Idea 5 (memorize/store map objects [or "stamps")
> It would be nice if some tile sequences could be stored for later use. For example: Tree, existing in 9 tiles. It would be nice to store: tile 1-3 (layer on top of char), tile 4-6 (layer on top of char), tile 7-9 (layer on mask 1), tile 8 blocked. This minimap of 9 tiles can be used as a sort of "stamp" on different maps without having to click 5 times to make a single tree.
> _again… would require seeing this done to know if it is worth it or not. it sounds good at first... but im sure this would mess me up more than help me._

[RetroX]

Thanks for the feedback

Idea 1 (check edge). My idea is that when you work on the lower half of a map you can press a button and the top 2 or 3 rows of the map below is shown. This to map larger items (hills, houses, larger trees) accross 2 maps.

Idea 2 (Paintbrush)
1\. The main usage would be for making rivers, roads and edges of mountains. For smaller things it indeed has limited or no use
2\. Scatter randomly -> I currently am using a script to create forrests. It places random items (up to max 2 tiles) in certain percentages. The configuration is a bit hard but it comes in handy for creating themed maps (like forrests or caves). If I can find the time i will make ik more userfriendly and post it.

4\. Visibility of layers.
The way of mapping is so true. But…. I am not the only person that maps. If i need to make some changes on maps other mappers made then i have to tear up some maps to change stuff.

5\. Stamps.
The use is for larger "base tiles" like, parts of rivers, corners of islands/lakes, roads, houses, cave entries, waterfalls, large trees.
I got a script that places a large tree on the location my char stands. The script is usefull but not very userfriendly (like the random scatter thing). A good developer can make this so much more userfriendly.

Additional note:
you're a bit afraid that some tools would mess up more than it would be usefull. An other idea i listed here is an Undo button. Since i am more of a programmer/scripter than a mapper it would be really usefull for me ;)

[shadowwulf]

```
4\. Visibility of layers.
The way of mapping is so true. But.... I am not the only person that maps. If i need to make some changes on maps other mappers made then i have to tear up some maps to change stuff.

```
you really shouldnt have multiple people editing one map though… screenie it, circle, bitch them out to change it...
takes longer but really its best...
if you go fixing their errors they dont fully understand what to change about their mapping.
and for proper credit it becomes a pain... cause now you edited their map... best to give them a range or section of map nums and let them go.

[RetroX]

True. But when mappers retire or get fired (these things happen after a few months) it's kinda hard to get them back to change a few maps.

[shadowwulf]

meh, not that necessary…

[RetroX]

I have to disagree on that. However, it can be a matter of priority tough.

From the ideas listed most of them are not in "high demand" and therefore not taken into consideration. Since i do have the need for them I am working on them by my own and release the code when ready (only that will take a while).

To rephrase some questions: what is the priority of the dev team (like: what major changes can we expect)?

[shadowwulf]

heh… 3.0 looks like its going to be a completely different species then 2.7... hence the numeric jump.
visually they seem alike... but codewise... they dont even seem like cousins to me anymore