Eclipse.Net[Development started]

[shrig94]

hmm….
you are a smart ape. Only someone bananas would think differently.

[darkamee]

In the end we all say… DezireSoft keep up the good work and we will be here waiting to try it out.
is that easier than fighting over many ways on programming Eclipse! or any other program in that mater.

well i guess i'll be on my way directing my little team on how to make Mixed Earth  :director: :whip2:

[Guest]

Hello

My name is lord_tipsta and i am currantly on the dev team for Eclipse.NET
devlopment has started we have done some of the sprites for the engine and
whatnot. But i am currantly going threw exams and  they will be done in about
2 weeks then i get 2 months holiday so i will work on it then.

Yours,
Tipsta, Eclipse.NET Staff

[demon xxx x]

You've got a good point, Godlord.  :P

I would code this in C++, and it would be Eclipse C++ o.o but you said it was hard[for you], so it's impossible for most.

[Godlord]

Well in order to write a C++ engine there comes a lot more to look at.

You need to build a proper base first and therefore you need to define the structure of that base first. You need to consider if you want a memory manager, a profiler, some setting manager, a log manager, etc. You also then need to define your coding style and perhaps the coding style of other developers, in short this just means you need to set up a base and a coding standard and of course the design plans or the engine structure. When that's done you don't have anything yet of your real engine or your game and this would probably take maybe a month for most. Even then, you may be rewriting this a lot of times, because your design failed or something similar or because you get a load of bugs because you didn't test it well (a memory manager can cause such bugs easily).

But wait a log manager, a settings manager? Indeed, these things need to save files in a specific style. For a log manager you can choose to use XML, HTML or perhaps RTF files or if you're really lazy or just don't want these things you can just use a plain text file for the job. For settings you could also use XML, INI files or perhaps make your own format. If you're writing the parsers yourself, then this is going to take a lot of time. Although there are perhaps better solutions like TinyXML and such or even code snippets on the internet which might save up some work.

Well we have our base what's next? Well that's mainly up to you actually, for a game engine it would probably be graphics, audio, networking, etc. That job also occupies a lot of time. You need to choose which libraries you're going to use, what platforms you want to support, etc. You might also want to consider if you want to make graphics and such more abstract, thereby allowing you to choose the renderer in-game. Again a lot of designing must happen here and it must fit well on your base, else you will probably end up rewriting everything.

Lets only take graphics, you think this an easy job? Then you're pretty wrong. You need to support image loading/saving, texture management, font/text management/rendering, animation management/rendering, interpolators, etc. But wait, we aren't done yet on top of the pie we need a [G]UI manager! As DirectX and OpenGL don't really come with such thing, unless you're going to use WinAPI or something. Even then, we have our so called graphics core, we still have a lot of other things left, for instance audio. Lets say we have our engine done for that part, do we have a game then? Not yet, we haven't actually written a single line of game code, except for engine tests perhaps.

Well for our game we can fully rely on our engine, except for when it's unreliable or just plain broken. We just ask the engine to load specific textures, to enter specific game modes, to alter some settings, etc. Even that takes a lot of time and especially when you've new developers working with **your** engine. So documentation is a must in that case, actually in any case, because you might forget how your engine works. Well we have a so called game but there's still a lot left. For instance we still need a toolkit or toolset with all tremendous editors to alter our game, like script editors if we have scripting support, map editors, you can name it. We also need graphics and music and sounds and even scripts (if you've scripting support of course), we also need a server, etc.

This mainly shows that you're actually reinventing the wheel with C++, well for this part. C++ might be powerful but for that price it consumes a lot of time of maybe one person or maybe of a whole group of people. This, my friends, is why people often like VB6 more than C++, because VB6 is easier and takes less time. C++ might be powerful, but that really depends on you and even then you must have a lot, and I really say a lot, of time and dedication, because without those, I suggest using VB6 instead and I really recommend to not waste your time attempting it, because it's hopeless then.

And please don't say C++ is easy, because then I really want to see you doing this or else I find it really offensive towards myself and a lot of other C++ programmers and even C programmers. Again this is also a reason why you can't compare VB6 with C++ or even VB.NET with C++, because they've a whole lot of differences.

Regards,
  The Nameless One.

[demon xxx x]

Never said C++ was Easy.  o.o

At one time, some stuff in C++ was easy for me.  But, after so long, I can now barely explain cin and cout…

VB.Net IS easy, and always will be o.o

[demon xxx x]

Some updates.

I apologize to any who don't think learning a Programming Language is easy, may have offended you.

[Updates]
Some more of the base engine has been added.
More in depth features will be stopped until I finish up with the base engine.

Yours,
    Joe,
    Dezire Software.

[Baron]

Im sorry, perhaps im the only one thinking this still, but im missing the exact WHY to this.

> ok, sure, vb.net is free.

so is vb6 to anyone with brain enough to search a torrent website (and anyone who isnt smart enough to do that wont be needing the source code.)

> some stuff is easier to do in .net

got any examples?

I'm just after a clear why as to why build yet another split client instead of integrating the in the know developers onto the current development team if they have useful contributions to make.

I want a simple explanation of how rebuilding this engine from scratch (again, ive seen this tried a few times, trust me) will benefit the end user.

[Guest]

> so is vb6 to anyone with brain enough to search a torrent website (and anyone who isnt smart enough to do that wont be needing the source code.)

That's not the point. It is illegal to download Visual Basic 6 for free, and some people prefer a more legal method.

[Zuleloan]

If you do update it to vb.net you could then port it to C# .net and then xna…

That would enable it to be on XBox360

Or you could port it to C++.net.

[demon xxx x]

oh, and vb.net is newer.
I know more vb.net than vb6, I know a lot is alike, but its also a lot different.  baron, I thank you for posting on the topic.  but its I also think some stuff is more possible with vb.net.

[Homicidal Monkey]

good luck with sockets. VB.net does not like winsock. Im not sure, but it may not support arrays of objects.

[demon xxx x]

o.o I know.
dont worry, eclipse.net will be made.

[Khachaturian]

Hmmm
good luck Dezire!
This would be something cool to see

[demon xxx x]

thanks bone.  :P  ill keep ya all updated tonight.  mass all nighter work tonight!

[shrig94]

awesome… I'm glad you are doing this instead of working on a game, this is better for everyone in the long run.

[demon xxx x]

I'm doing it for the community, because it's tiring to see so many new Eclipse users, and have no idea that VB6 costs money, but want to get it, and learn it, without breaking the law.  VB.NET has a free Express version, and I will do my best of all to post great tutorials up.

Now, I know this isn't so much on the topic, but about you're comment on C++, "It is to me," that is a load of bullshit, Godlord may even have some trouble on some stuff, and there is no way you are better than he is, otherwise you'd have made a C++ Engine.  It's so much stress to do so, I quit C++ because of it.

[demon xxx x]

Well, I've decided on Movement.

Now, about Coordinates, vote, post about it to discuss.  I'll answer.

[Dark Crusade]

I somehow doubt that all will know what picgame is, and even the co-ordinates.

[demon xxx x]

picGame = THE GAME

[shrig94]

I wasn't saying im better. IT started out with me wondering what happened to vhutoria, godlord made it an arguement…

[demon xxx x]

He didn't make an argument, he said I probably got stressed out and gave up on it.. Which is EXACTLY what I did o.o

[demon xxx x]

@shrig94:

> awesome… I'm glad you are doing this **instead of working on a game**, this is better for everyone in the long run.

By the way, just noticed this.

If you were implying I can't make a game, because lack of work, I never worked on your sprites, when I had that job, because I didn't want to, but forgot to tell you.

[Guest]

post

[Godlord]

@shrig94:

> I wasn't saying im better. IT started out with me wondering what happened to vhutoria, godlord made it an arguement…

Well you were passively as Joseph and I stated.

First of all if you don't want arguments, which you most likely seem to want actually, then don't post publicly but privately or perhaps only ask the question you wanted to ask. Last but not least how would I force myself to not argue if you say C++ is easier than VB6 or VB.NET, that's just **ASKING FOR IT**. I quote it again, just for you.

@shrig94:

> I would finish your c++ version, it is a better, easier language that is more powerful. We will have many more people interested if you did that

Easier than what may be the question, but you were by that referring to either VB6 or VB.NET which is again **ASKING FOR IT**.

@Kreator:

> I somehow doubt that all will know what picgame is, and even the co-ordinates.

Coordinates is all about mathematics (X, Y) or (abscissa, ordinate), picGame is the picture box the actual game is drawn on in Eclipse.

Regards,
  The Nameless One.