MMO Concept, need feedback.

[Bonk]

I just had a thought about a game, I need people's ideas.

You'd start out as a peasant in a random area and try to survive by farming, killing and trading. Each one of three countries has a feudal system, comprising of a King and/or Queen, Grand Duke and Grand Duchess, Duke and Duchess, Earl and Countess, Baron and Baroness and Knight (Unisex title).

**Peasants** live in towns or villages, which are disciplined by Knights.

**Knights** live in private housing, collect taxes from peasants and are paid for their work by the Baron and Baroness of said town.

**The Baron and Baroness** take 50% of the taxes for themselves and pass the other 50% to the King or Queen. They also live in private mansions.

**Earls and Countesses** are responsible for Villages, larger than towns. They employ Knights to do their work the same as Barons, though they use a maximum of ten, instead of five Knights and live in manors. They keep 75% of taxes.

**Dukes and Duchesses** are responsible for cities, and employ fifteen knights. They live in castles and keep 100% of the taxes their knights collect. They sit in the Hall of Honour with the King and Queen and can raise or lower taxes, though people living there may leave.

**Grand Dukes and Grand Duchesses** live in palaces, and are responsible for their county. A county can contain any number of cities, villages and towns, so they consult with the Dukes, Earls and Barons to discuss running them. They can petition to the Emperor to build a new structure in a city, town or village, which would make peasants move to the place they run.

**The King and Queen** live in Grand Palaces. They can bestow and remove titles (But not Knighthoods) and wage wars against other countries.

If anyone with a title is killed, their title automatically transfers to the killer, along with the land associated with it.

Peasants can do whatever they please, as long as they pay taxes. Taxes are a flat rate of 200 gold per peasant, so if you were a baron with 30 peasants, you would earn 6000 gold (I think), which you would keep 3000 of.

Peasants cannot enter cities. Cities are lived in by Lords and Ladies, which is earned through levelling to level 15\. Lords and Ladies pay a flat rate of 500 gold for taxes.

Taxes are paid once each month. If a peasant fails to pay taxes, he becomes an outcast. Outcasts cannot enter towns, villages or cities. They can only regain their peasant status by paying 300 gold to their Baron or Earl.

Likewise, if a Lord or Lady does not pay their due, they downrank to a peasant until paying 600 gold to the Duchy.

**Titles**

Emperor & Empress (Admins, really)
King and Queen (Three of these)
Grand Duke & Grand Duchess
Duke and Duchess
Earl and Countess
Baron and Baroness
Knight
Lord & Lady
Peasant

Whaddya think?
I just need a programmer :L

[Robin]

Sure, whatever. Less talk more work. Ideas are cheap. All of that writing is worth fuck all if you're not going to just do it. Go get the framework down, get the systems working. Once you've got that down you can come back here and ask for ideas.

[Bonk]

There's no point starting when it's just a thought. I'm gathering peoples ideas and input before I do anything - after all, the people reading it will likely be the people playing it.

[renzo]

The idea is still very half-baked, you need to take into consideration the economy with a fielty system.
How are the peasants going to get the money to pay their taxes? Are the Lords and Ladies going to pay them for their services?  And are you going to have enough homes for everyone to live in?  And peasants not allowed to enter cities, how are they going to get their supplies? Or deliver their products to the Lords and Ladies?

Sounds nice but there are way to many things to think about to make this work.

[Irhymer]

@renzo:

> The idea is still very half-baked, you need to take into consideration the economy with a fielty system.
> How are the peasants going to get the money to pay their taxes? Are the Lords and Ladies going to pay them for their services?  And are you going to have enough homes for everyone to live in?  And peasants not allowed to enter cities, how are they going to get their supplies? Or deliver their products to the Lords and Ladies?
>
> Sounds nice but there are way to many things to think about to make this work.

I agree with Renzo in a way. This exact concept would be like building a whole economy into a game. And real economy's are of course too complex for us to even predict correctly. It would be a cool study, but for a game… i don't know what would make it playable.

This part is interesting though:

> If anyone with a title is killed, their title automatically transfers to the killer

That would be a cool feature for a game if it were planned out a little more.

-Jake

[Sickey]

Sounds pretty hard to make but, here some ideas.
1\. When you kill someone for their title wouldn't it be assassination (which should be illegal) You could challenge someone and fight about the title instead.
2\. Public market place outside castle?
3\. The higher rank of peasent (in cities) should be "Citizen" where you could do various jobs, like Smith, etc.

[Bonk]

Well, peasants don't serve Lords and Ladies, they can only become one after level 15\. Maybe a citizen rank at level 5 would even things out. As for paying taxes, they can farm and rear animals to gain money.

The idea of staking titles seems better than simply fighting.

Would people prefer ways to acquire and sell multiple titles?

[DrNova]

Robin, sometimes you give terrible feedback.

I think its a good idea, but you have to consider an assumed optomal healthy population size. I think there are to many positions to be filled there that sound like they'd HAVE to be filled.  Shorted the main chain-of-command to a a few key options, and add some offshoot duties that can be filled once you have enough players but arent essential to keeping the whole system running.

-edit-
And I reall ylike that if you kill a titled player, you get their title. In theory I think it will keep thing very interesting, but hopefully you have a generally civil and somewhat decent population base. Could be trouble if everyone goes on a "I want power" kill frenzy.

Need to make some reason why assuming titles like that might have drawbacks or risks, in order to make it less of an option then just to go knock off the king.  and the royalties and such should get some sort of perks to make defending their title easier, though not too much easier

[Bonk]

A good source of income is one, along with the right to bestow and revoke titles. Plus a Grand Palace and a Hall of Honour with admins to add new areas. Plus they can send Knights to wars and gain new kingdoms.

Maybe a way to appoint laws might be effective - a double edged blade, as it could put their life in danger.

[Robin]

@DrNova:

> Robin, sometimes you give terrible feedback.

Just because I have my own way of handling things doesn't mean it's bad. People come on here asking for feedback all the time. None of them ever actually do anything with their game concept. So far my approach to game design has had 3 successful releases. I'd say my feedback has a much better success rate than anything else in here.

You can dick around with game details later on. The most important part of a project is getting it off the ground. Get a release out then start fixing it from actual player feedback, not the feedback of some developers on a forum which will never actually play it.

Bonk is obviously never going to release a game with such an overly complex system, especially as he has the programming ability of a wet possum. What he needs to do is get a project out so he can gauge his ability and change his ideas to match what he can actually accomplish.

Game development is like riding a bike. You can lecture people all day on what they should and should not do, but they're still going to fall off the moment they sit on that bloody thing. They need to actually practise and learn from their own mistakes.

[DogOwnzU]

I like the idea of the game i'd love to see it made.

[DrNova]

@Robin:

> Just because I have my own way of handling things doesn't mean it's bad. People come on here asking for feedback all the time. None of them ever actually do anything with their game concept. So far my approach to game design has had 3 successful releases. I'd say my feedback has a much better success rate than anything else in here.
>
> You can dick around with game details later on. The most important part of a project is getting it off the ground. Get a release out then start fixing it from actual player feedback, not the feedback of some developers on a forum which will never actually play it.
>
> Bonk is obviously never going to release a game with such an overly complex system, especially as he has the programming ability of a wet possum. What he needs to do is get a project out so he can gauge his ability and change his ideas to match what he can actually accomplish.
>
> Game development is like riding a bike. You can lecture people all day on what they should and should not do, but they're still going to fall off the moment they sit on that bloody thing. They need to actually practise and learn from their own mistakes.

True.

[Bonk]

@Robin:

> Bonk is obviously never going to release a game with such an overly complex system, especially as he has the programming ability of a wet possum.

Well, I won't argue with that, but I'm going to hire someone who's actually able to program, though this system will be simplified somewhat.

A game with systems like this would need a team, especially if it were cutom graphics etcetera - it's too much work for someone singular.

[Robin]

@Bonk:

> Well, I won't argue with that, but I'm going to hire someone who's actually able to program, though this system will be simplified somewhat.
>
> A game with systems like this would need a team, especially if it were cutom graphics etcetera - it's too much work for someone singular.

You have no idea how much work is required for a system like this at all, do you? It's not about having a big team, it's about having a small team of talented people who know what they're doing. A single programmer who knows what they're doing will get much more done than a team of 10 programmers who don't know what they're doing.

To be successful you need to keep your team as small as possible. Only a fool would bring in people for such overly specialised tasks. You want 2 or 3 people who are talented in multiple areas. Your programmer needs to be at the top of his game, he needs to have a firm grasp of design and graphics and he needs to be able to handle interface design and animation.

It's not a case of, "Oh I have this awesome game idea, I just need to bring in the people to do it". If there is someone on this forum who can do all the shit you want then he'll obviously be doing his own thing already. Why?

Because ideas are cheap but the skills needed to realise said ideas are rare.

Everyone and their grandma has a game planned out in their head. If you don't have the skills to get it off the ground then you're just as useless as the next guy. Discussing ideas on this forum has _never_ lead to anything solid. Ever. At all. Nothing. I need people like you to stop proving me right so we can get some decent projects out, so let your actions speak louder than your words and go pull something together.

[Bonk]

So negative, Robin.

I didn't say I've got a tonnes of people working on it - I'm trying to find someone. I've been discussing it with someone and I'm waiting for the green light. In the meantime, I'm doing the pixel art.

Besides, I've simplified it a lot more. I was really just using a sledgehammer to open a bottle.

As for pulling something together, it's an idea. I want people's opinions from day one, because it's not just me who'll be playing this, is it?

[Robin]

@Bonk:

> So negative, Robin.
>
> I didn't say I've got a tonnes of people working on it - I'm trying to find someone. I've been discussing it with someone and I'm waiting for the green light. In the meantime, I'm doing the pixel art.
>
> Besides, I've simplified it a lot more. I was really just using a sledgehammer to open a bottle.
>
> As for pulling something together, it's an idea. I want people's opinions from day one, because it's not just me who'll be playing this, is it?

Wow, you've got the pixel art covered. Sounds like this project is going at 100mph here. Everyone aboard the train! Choo choo!

Go through this discussion section. Seriously, go through it. Find all the people who want to throw their ideas around and then come back and tell me how many of those people have actually done anything with the feedback given to them.

You can call me whatever you want, but at the end of the day I'm just calling it how it is. Being a realist is the same thing no matter what slant you try and put on it.

[Bonk]

Oh, calm down, Robin, you'll give yourself a nosebleed.

Like I said, it's still a concept, early days. I never said 'ZOMG NEARLY FINISHED LOLOL GONNA BE AWESUM!', just that I was doing some pixel art in preparation for it.

What works for you, Robin, doesn't work for everyone else. I don't think I've seen a single one of your projects with graphics you made yourself, so don't be so quick to jump on other people for it.

[Robin]

Let me put this in to perspective.

You come on here and post a list of things that you think would be awesome in your game. In fact the entire game will be based around this concept.

You have the systems mapped out, you've worked it all out in your head.

You've done all this yet you don't have the skills to actually bring it to fruition and you're too stubborn to actually learn.

You're asking for people's feedback and I've given you mine. Let me reiterate; Your ideas are completely worthless. During the time you've spent trying to insult my outlook and projects you could have actually gone and read up on the documentation which, in turn, could actually give you the knowledge needed to do something with your concept!

Here, let me give you a hand. Let me lock this completely useless topic and link you to something which will actually prove useful to you.

[http://www.vb6.us/tutorials/functions-and-subroutines-vb6](http://www.vb6.us/tutorials/functions-and-subroutines-vb6)

Stop kidding yourself. You'll never magically come across a programmer with the ability to concoct a system which would actually house such a stupidly convoluted system yet doesn't have the ability to come up with half-arsed game concepts himself.

Go make the game, release it, build it up as you go along. Any monkey can throw together a system concept. It takes true skill to develop the concept in such a way that it can be developed over time on a live framework.

Stop living in your fantasy land and go do some hard graft and teach yourself what you need to know.