Eclipse maps vs Rmxp maps

[Kay-No]

Hello, ive been checkin around in some of the rmxp map gallery's.
And I can see that they have a much higher standard then the maps made with/by Eclipse.

I havent tried rmxp yet, but is it easier to map with it or how come they keep a higher standard?
Ive checked trough many of the maps and I havent seen a single one that looks "bad".

Here's an example:
With a comment:

> @xkirmx- not bad, looks rather pretty. I'm still not a fan of the grass in the rock edge tiles, makes the rocks look like they are foating above the grass. (especially the piece near he cave.
> I also don't like floating rocks. There are some partialy submerged rocks in charsets you can use. No real nticeable flaws however it would benefit from a slightly greyer pre-midnight screen tone.

Not really the comment you would expect when posting a map like this in this community.  :cheesy:

Go here for more examples:
http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/22121/t1391490-rmxp-map-gallery-vi/29.htm
(It's also good for inspiration.)  ;)

So, is the reason the maps keeps a higher standard because of so many newbs in eclipse community or is it because its easier to map with rmxp? Or any other reason?

[Robin]

Nothing to do with the software. It's actually easier to map in Origins because you've got more layers.

There people there just actually have high standards.

[Murdoc]

Origins might be easier to create more detail because it has more layers. But in reality, a map like you've posted there Kay-No is pretty easy to make with RMXP because of the "auto-tile" feature. Maps as good as this one can be done with Origins too, but it requires you knowing how to do the same thing without auto-tile. In other words, you gotta be a good mapper. The people over at that forum do have higher standards, but its only because the auto-tiling makes creating nice maps easier for n00bs, and so its essentially hard for even shitty mappers to create some of the god-awful maps you see in eclipse forums. (square, uninteresting etc) Hope that helps further explain the contrast. ;-)

[Kay-No]

@Robin:

> Nothing to do with the software. It's actually easier to map in Origins because you've got more layers.
>
> There people there just actually have high standards.

Heh, thats strange. How it could be such a difference. :P

Btw, ive seen some maps have sort of light effects.
Like this:
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j205/zanbatou-T-S/somepic.png
http://img412.imageshack.us/f/wyrmlairentrance2.jpg/
Is this something that is impossible to implement in the origins engine?

Another map that was posted at the forums.
http://hypersnake22.deviantart.com/art/Halterock-Full-view-155359644
Pretty sweet. I hope people can learn something by looking through those maps. So we can increase our standard at this forum. ;)

[Robin]

@Murdoc:

> -snip-

RMXP is simply a hard set to make look good. All generic stuff is. As for autotiles, I've got a perfectly fine working autotiles system. Hell, anyone could grab a copy till recently.

@Kay-No:

> Heh, thats strange. How it could be such a difference. :P

How is that strange at all? It's a completely different community. Hell, most standards around here were stupidly low. Until I released Origins the programming standards were the kind of stuff you'd expect from a bunch of kids.

I'm seriously finding it hard to understand how you could possibly think that a difference in standards is anything to do with the engine. A map is as good as the person's mapping skills are. If you're a good mapper you can work around software restrictions.

People around here just don't know how to make things look good. I'm not the best mapper around but even I can make some half-way decent stuff in Origins.


[Guest]

Robin that map is horrid<3 *wish I could map like that :(*

@Robin:

> How is that strange at all? It's a completely different community. Hell, most standards around here were stupidly low. Until I released Origins the programming standards were the kind of stuff you'd expect from a bunch of kids.
>
> I'm seriously finding it hard to understand how you could possibly think that a difference in standards is anything to do with the engine. A map is as good as the person's mapping skills are. If you're a good mapper you can work around software restrictions.
>
> People around here just don't know how to make things look good. I'm not the best mapper around but even I can make some half-way decent stuff in Origins.
>
> 

spot on!

EDIT: To add on to the little I said, I kind of believe that too many people on here really do not want to put in the dedication needed to make a decent game. Most people on this forum are almost at puberty anyway. What makes you think children (mostly American) with the education system we have, actually want to do something productive at their age. But that's a whole other discussion.

Anyway, my point is that many people cannot map well because they do not go through the process of learning and improve. Think of it as writing a paper. First you pre-write. That would be the equivalence of just thinking of a theme. Next is your rough draft. Obviously, this would be to create your first map.

This is followed by peer revision. That is why we have this forum. Not only to observe but to help revise others' work. Next is your final draft. (Finished product).

Most people on this forum do not want to go through the correct procedure or may not even want to have their work CC'ed. I don't know if it is that people here think that they do not require criticism or if it is they are simply happy with anything. However, I feel that there are many other places, such as RMXP, that like the work and perform as everyone should.

[Anna Comnena]

This comparison is flawed in so many ways.

1\. RMXP has had all their tiles and graphics already in their community. Eclipse, although admitedly rips from that community often, has had to expend energy into the converstion or creation of tilesets, and has never had the wide variety of quality tiles RMXP developers have had.

2\. RMXP deals with single player games, Eclipse with MMOs. This completely changes what is better for a map. you might say that RMXP maps look nicer, sometimes they do, whatever. Personally I think any maps in Tales Of Adriana or Stwalart's Tale look just as good as the "best" of RMXP maps for what they are. And yes I did do most of the mapping for both of those games so I am biased about that opinion.

But think of it like this. A map in a single player RPG is much more like cinematography, whereas a map in an MMORPG is more like landscaping. The end-use of the maps are entirely different, and so the design and creation of them is different, too. In a single player RPG, maps are nothing more than scenes for the game narrative; in an MMO the maps have to be much more open and accessible to the player population, because of the game's nature.

Basically, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Also, that RMXP map is nice, no doubt, but it's hardly unattainable by anyone from Eclipse. Not too mention the sheer volumne of maps in an MMO; I'd like to see them maintain _consistancy of quality_ for all their pretty scenic maps.

But really, I'm pretty sure myself, Soljah, and Beau could easily map as well as anyone from the RMXP community.

[Valentine90]

RPG Maker XP is a powerful tool in creating maps, you configure the **X****(Block)** and **O** in the editor and then the rest is easy and convenient, you create large and detailed maps much faster

In eclipse you have a little difficulty because you have to walk away with the character to make things go, and you could end up forgetting to lock something

[Hugo]

Everyone knows that the best mechanism for mapping is the RMXP.

You have several options and everything is much simpler and easier, Origins is good, more RMXP is a thousand times better, this is indeed correct.!

All mapping in another editor needs without wandering around the map to map other areas.

Set priorities and bloks at once, without putting a need for a stay.

RMXP is far better than any other version of eclipse.

[Valentine90]

The only tool similar to rpg maker xp called ORPG Editor, it also creates online game

And it comes with DirectX8

[Ruins of Hell]

@Hugo:

> Everyone knows that the best mechanism for mapping is the RMXP.
>
> You have several options and everything is much simpler and easier, Origins is good, more RMXP is a thousand times better, this is indeed correct.!
>
> All mapping in another editor needs without wandering around the map to map other areas.
>
> Set priorities and bloks at once, without putting a need for a stay.
>
> RMXP is far better than any other version of eclipse.

@Marlos:

> RPG Maker XP is a powerful tool in creating maps, you configure the **X****(Block)** and **O** in the editor and then the rest is easy and convenient, you create large and detailed maps much faster
>
> In eclipse you have a little difficulty because you have to walk away with the character to make things go, and you could end up forgetting to lock something

You're comparing apples to oranges. Eclipse is an open source free MMO maker. RPGMaker is a paid closed source product for making RPGs. They are different, and have little relation to each other. RPGMaker is basically a template.

[Valentine90]

@Soul
No, the rpg maker is not fully closed, part of the editor is closed, the more the client code is open

The proof is that I managed to create an online game in rpg maker xp, Editing scripts and creating new

[mitlark]

A program is a tool, if you know how to use it you can get the same than if you use any other, and I say it with my RPG Maker experience, I have seen much more cool maps in RM2k3 than RMXP, and still RMXP has the resolution and better mapping capabilities than the previous one (RM2k3). And it's because majority of RM2k3 users tend to have 8 years or so using the program. Some others change to RMXP (or RMVX, but the mapping there isn't nice >:S, excess of autotiling and tileset limitations). So, just practice and you will get better.

In terms of tools, RMXP makes some things easier, like the autotiling (Robin said "autotile coming" :F, he SAID it ;D) and the square tool (to be honest, not that useful but it's ok). And of course, something I tend to use very often, the "tilepicker", or that thing that makes you select tiles in the map itself _(see atachments)_.

And well, that "light effects" are made in two ways (RMXP): pictures and fog (a picture that "tiles itself" and make a pattern across the entire screen). Of course, they have transparency.

Greetings,
L'ark Mitsinikos

[Valentine90]

It is evident that create maps in rpg maker xp is easier and has more rpg maker xp funciões that the other programs

The problem is not so with maps that you create a game, the eclipse is more stable and the language of visual basic does not have the lag of the ruby language

[kender the great]

You guys are going completely off subject to what really is being discussed. The reason that those maps look much more unique even while using the basic RMXP tiles and shit are because that is what it is meant for. In a single player game, you look for beauty, and how everything is set up so smoothly. But in an Online game that uses things like Origins, you aren't going to capture that. It's more stability and what it has to offer. Rpg maker XP deals with role playing games, not for online suitability. And sure they have the ruby script that enables it, but it is far too buggy to have anything actually implemented into being an actual smooth running game. Besides, the reasons why they look so much nicer are due to the fact that people there usually buy the program and want to spend time working on things for their story. People on eclipse get those tiles as a preset. And most people who attempt to make a game have no coordination on how things work, so they slap some grass and shitty trees down and call it a game. There is nothing that deals with the actual system itself.

tl;dr hush and l2map.

[Homicidal Monkey]

same argument over and over. Either take it to debate section or keep it to im chats

[Robin]

lul.

tl;dr: If you can't make a good map in Origins you can't make a good map in RMXP.