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Marsh
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This entire community is based on multiple peoples hard work. I am tired of coming on the shoutbox every second day and hearing tons of shit about the community. Try to appreciate what you have. People have put hundreds of hours of there personal time into making this site for you. For free i might add. I understand that recommendations can be made, but this is getting out of hand. Enjoy the site and stop hating on everything. You dont realize what you have until its gone.

Shoutbox will be back in a hour or two. In the meanwhile, chill out. Lets try to all get a long shall we? We are all here for the same reason. This community used to be about friendship. Teaching, not destroying.
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I like that keyword "people" it's used in a nice way in my mind, but don't forget you said this "community" well, we've put hard work into this site as well, don't tell me that some or most of the donations and other contributions haven't helped…it hasn't just been the staff. There must be equilateral balance, we make the community, the staff are here to enforce rules. My true point is that there are certain staff who try and go beyond the boundary of their duty because of their name color which doesn't mean a goddamn thing to me if you don't act as you should in that position...as I said before and as I'll say now...just because you've been here for a long ass time doesn't give you the right to think you can step all over the words of others and then go being hypocritical, that's my opinion. Some people work their assess off making contributions to this community everyday..to make it what it is..and I feel like one admin shouldn't just have total say so. I appreciate what I have, but I don't always appreciate what it brings.

Edit: I also don't mind some staff being fun, because most of them are, and if you notice I'd have to say they're doing a good job and looky there they can be nice, keep a decent conversation, have fun and be staff at the same time..those are some characteristic traits others should consider taking up.
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General, weren't you the one who liked Spork? He abused his powers more than any mod out there.

Seriously, chill. This is the most relaxed admin team we've ever had– almost to a fault. Stop complaining. The one thing that I think should be changed is the over-powered word filter (awesome shouldn't be filtered… along with half of that stuff-- it just gets annoying).
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I think it would be a favor to all of us if we don't consider time existing within the community as a measure of influence or control one would have in the community and Death is right on that. Straighten yourselves out and don't take his or her crap seriously, were all here because we like where we are or what we do, and it should be that way.
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Well I have something and since we're on the topic of reformation I think it's pretty valid.

* Creativity is discouraged here. I suggest you bring back the having to approve topics thing in the Eclipse Project board because frankly there's more and more garbage being posted. Moderators who could give these members some tips would also be nice.
* Members need to be listened to more. Okay, I admit some of us are idiots but some of us actually know what we're talking about.
* A bit unrelated but we need an actual engine. I know people have commitments but without a stable, well-updated engine Eclipse is going to die. No one cares about VB6 anymore and no one is even bothering to learn such a simple language in the first place. We either need a new engine or to actually encourage members to program.

Just my 2p.
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> Why not let the bells ring Marshy Dearest?
>
> Yes Pm's can be a good way to handle things, but it seems like you are trying to push problems into the dark here.

If there is one thing about communities like ours is making everything public and stuff leads to bum candy starting all over because someone was being immature. Let Marshy Dearest handle it if he wants to take it privately.
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> Well I have something and since we're on the topic of reformation I think it's pretty valid.
>
> * Creativity is discouraged here. I suggest you bring back the having to approve topics thing in the Eclipse Project board because frankly there's more and more garbage being posted. Moderators who could give these members some tips would also be nice.
> * Members need to be listened to more. Okay, I admit some of us are idiots but some of us actually know what we're talking about.
> * A bit unrelated but we need an actual engine. I know people have commitments but without a stable, well-updated engine Eclipse is going to die. No one cares about VB6 anymore and no one is even bothering to learn such a simple language in the first place. We either need a new engine or to actually encourage members to program.
>
> Just my 2p.

That third point is quite right. Mirage again fell because it was filled with problems and nobody was moving forward. We could at least do with 3.0 already and E.net is in the making and Jeff's task list is a good engine in the making. I agree with the creativity problem too, I once saw a project around here with nothing more than the town included in the event system demo, what kind of crap is that. Let's set some guidelines and be a bit tougher on things.
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> Why not let the bells ring Marshy Dearest?
>
> Yes Pm's can be a good way to handle things, but it seems like you are trying to push problems into the dark here.

I agree, you want specific examples I've given way to many and so I'll list them here and anyone is free to tell me if I'm wrong..oh and yes this is directed at Magical Magical Magical Aeroplane the only staff member I do have problems here with and no I don't complain a lot I almost don't complain at all until someone decides they want to go and butcher whatever I say…and so with the list.

1) Well, this is all started before this, but we created the p'ony group and I thought everything was fine and out of no where...Magical Magical Magical Aeroplane came at the entire group saying how we were too exclusive and how we thought we had authority over others and honestly I'm just like where the duck did this even come from...so I tried to please him by having the group deleted, keep in mind he was ready to quit here supposedly.

2)This was after the p'ony group was deleted, he started come at us individually want an example? One day we're in the chat I forgot what it was exactly, but General said something in which to me was quite normal, I was also saying something...all of a sudden there was an argument with the three of us and supposedly we were tag teaming him in this situation. Ok...I'm just like I'm not going to waste my time on you anymore...again he claimed he was going to quit..-.-'

3)I was going to quit as I didn't in which I explained directly to you Marshy Dearest, but oh he just had to say something..he's been constantly bringing up how I changed my mind and I'm just another 12-16 year old who flip flops...supposedly that's who I am now, just a flip flop...lol.

4)Ertzel asked something and he totally smashed the opinion with a flat out no and so I spoke on it..because I didn't think it was a bad idea...he than said something like oh, so you want to start an argument with that. I seriously said no...he then continued on saying something about my "ignorance" and I got offended and then we started arguing there...he even started arguing with sekaru..over just about nothing and then out of no where BAM he claims once again people are "Tag teaming him"

5) He always runs around here talking about how everyone wants authority and how we're shittheads...and yet he's the only one who acts as if he's better than anyone else and oh and yes he acts just that way...he's even told me his opinion is never wrong...

I would post even more bum candy, but frankly I'm tired and honestly I don't think you'd do anything anyway Marshy Dearest...according to him I can go tell his boss and you'll just brush it off..even if he bans me..

Oh and last, but not least get this..he always runs claiming he'll quit because I'm sure he thinks he has Marshy Dearest in his back pocket and that he'll back him up no matter what...well it's looking a bit true, I mean Marshy Dearest I haven't seen him send you a pm or give a valid statement and yet you automatically ran to his rescue...telling him to ignore the idiots? Quite frankly I'm not an idiot...we shouldn't be ignored for voicing our opinion..and I've been way to nice to be came at sideways.
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I think we need a revision of the staff or even policies in question and then we need to realize that in Eclipse we've seen that when someone is being a complete arse usually we see a lot of people on the side against him, that's basically human nature. Aer was being a jackass, okay, now let's figure out what needs to be done and get it over with.

On my offensive side Aer may have done a load of work for the new Eclipse site but that means nothing if you're going to become a jerk about it. Robin wasn't exactly liked by everyone but he did the site and never became a power-drunk arse about it, he just was who he was. Quit if you will, Eclipse has gotten through plenty of problems before and should be able to now with the community almost in it's prime before this came up.
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*Claps* I was just about to post something of that nature and snow took the words out of my mouth *claps* yes..people have done a bunch for the site, been here for a while, but what does it matter when you're obviously being petty, abusive or a "jackass" oh and yes, this goes for us members as well. I mean no matter if I don donated 1000$ or whatever someone has done you guys would willing be able to just as easily ban one of our assess. Tranquility my friend, tranquility…I'll also add this in real quick, we should have the old forum skin...js..

I believe members should be able to do something more than just ideals...something like a committee..I thinking voting and stuff like that would be nice.
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Who cares if we are using vb6, vb.net, c#, c++, ruby, peral, python or whatever! This community is for fun. If you cannot have fun unless the engine is advanced then leave now because the world is changing, the second you get what you want is the second you want something else, cooler, more advanced, more features etc and to be honest these people who are GIVING this stuff to you (for free might I add, just in case you all have forgotten) are giving up HOURS upon HOURS of their own lives to provide what we even have now.

Let me flash back to about 3 and 1/2 to 4 years ago… Eclipse Evolution 2.7 was the bum candy and we all knew it in the back of our minds that it couldn't hold up to more than 5-10 people at a time... We were excited by Eclipse Evolution 3.0 (which never came), Eclipse Stable was awesome possum bum candy although not stable at all and Eclipse was as confusing as ever to use but god damn that community was the funnest place to be... the people in the shoutbox talked about their lives and what was going on, there were no debates on how one programming language was better than another or how something might bug out every now and then... hell.. we even had a nice long RTE list and several of them said that if you encountered a few of these RTES, you were bum candy out of luck!

I have absolutely no point in this rambling other than to say hey, if you are an elitest who really cares about something really professional and optimized down to the letter along with full set of personal customizations before you will think about making a game then get out of here and learn how to do it yourself or hire someone... now, if you are open minded and looking for a good time (making a game or not) and don't give a duck about what happens then welcome to Eclipse, I am glad to see you here and hope that you have a great time. There is no need for pointless arguing against the engine because of technicalities because in the end, that is only a personal problem.
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> I am currently traveling home, i will reply to these in the morning. Though keep posting. It is good to here peoples thought on the community. As long as it is actually trying to help ( as it is currently).

This might be a bit much to ask out of some Eclipsians but let's get this over with and truly bring Eclipse to a new frontier. Let's tighten our guidelines on Projects and get more visible evidence of progress being done on Engines and get them out there in the first place, and let's review everyone and make sure we have a team that isn't going to cause these problems regardless of their work, and review each one without bias so we can see the issues clearly. Eclipse is a place to chill, I understand, but our game development side needs some a bit of tuning.
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> …

Well then we might as well advertise this as a social community, because, yeah, you're right, this is no longer a game making community. People get put down for making decent, or even sometimes plain different games. However if you still want to advertise it as a "2D Free MMO RPG Maker" which is what I typed in 4-5 years ago only to end up here then we should be looking into alternatives for providing a good engine.
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I agree with that snow, also JC I don't think this argument was about the engine its self..maybe I'm wrong, but it's not what I thought, however I do agree it gets only as good as we make it. To be honest we do still talk about our daily lives etc…but there's a new generation, things change and bum candy happens..we can no longer keep looking back. It simply isn't what it was years back.
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JC I don't think the problem lies in the engine or language, wonders can be done with anything really, it's our standards in the stuff some of us take seriously. Standards as in what gets approval as an Eclipse project, what were seeing the development process of Eclipse and how we handle people who are in a higher up position with bad effects.

Now do we need democracy or some sort of government around here? This is the internet, course not, that leads to nothing but problems. But should the issues we have be monitored more often with a bit of quality control around here with this nice new site and progress? I think so.
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I agree that game development is important. But i agree with what jcSnider said 100%. It doesnt matter what language we use, or what engine we are using. If the community is jerks it will stay that way, I am aware that you guys will not truly understand as many of you werent around at that time. This community used to be a great place for friendes to discuss whats happening with there lives and what they were developing. I feel as if some of you guys are just creating excuses for your behavior.

Also for the people that donated. I truly appreciate it. But this does not somehow make you exempt from rules. Also when you donated like 2 bucks it doesnt quite apply. I think that this part of the argument should really be kept out of this. People donated because they liked the community. This should have no argument impact or future results. Not pointing any fingers here.

Also, as far as the topics having stricter moderation. Yes it is a nice thing to have. But also should we really refuse someones game because it does not meet up with are standards? Anyone should be able to live there dream whether it is crap or not. Back when i used playerworlds i am sure i pumped out some pure shit. But you know what? I learned. I had fun. I experienced.
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The real question is how do we supposedly go about shaping up this community I mean sure looks can contribute to that, but how do we go about getting back into that older feel of eclipse…and being eclipsians...also about the whole donation thing, I didn't donate two bucks...oh and I did remember saying that none of this bum candy excludes us..I'm not special and don't expect to get any more attention then the next one, but don't be mistaken there's a difference between making excuses and speaking out the truth I don't want to be excused nor do I feel I should have to be because someone as usual decided to be a jerk. If you have people who weren't even directly involved with this telling you the exact same thing I don't understand how we could all be making excuses against one person, it's just way too bias.
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