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New Ownership? New Direction? Dr.Yukiro.


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Not to be "that guy". But I dont like the idea of a community founded on just being a friendly place and kind. Call me an asshole, but berrating people on how they put a point across or when there is personal banter (like whats just happened here) isn't a solution.

Some people in topics could have genuine concerns, concerns that not everybody will agree with or be happy to hear regardless of intention.

For instance… Im worried about posting this post in case i get banned or warned... thats not a community spirit you should foster, folks.

Hell I cant even collaborate with you guys (which is what game development is about) because anything not eclipse is somehow "the enemy" and trounced out.
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I must say that I agree with Spike on this, throwing banter is very natural for most humans, and that right should not be taken away, however I believe that there must be a line somewhere to a point where it's no longer okay, and that line is very hard to draw, since everyone is different, both the victim, as well as the offender of the banter, and of course of those who judge it(admins/mods), causing it to be a rather complicated and sensitive thing.

Spike is on the right track, however I hope with the new owner, as well as a bit of new staff will change this for the better, and prove Spike wrong eventually.
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Although we can all agree that anyone is a step up from Amish, I do fear for the longevity of Eclipse while in the hands of Yukiro. Please, oh please prove me wrong.

In addition,

Marshy was telling me over skype, that, "[regardless], eclipse will still live in some form or fashion". While I agree, my response was, "Well sure, but it won't be a place that I'll want to be a part of"… This can go sour so fast; I have no faith in Yukrio, and feel that he has absolutely no experience running anything.

Call me the devil's advocate, or a realist. Either way, there's a lot of work to be done, and a lot of people to prove wrong, including me.
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So whilst we were talking on Eclipse Skype chat over microphone, I was rambling on for about two minutes to complete silence. When I finished, I got "Good speech"'s. I've never given a speech in my life.

To summarise it, Eclipse once was and should have always been, open source, free and about the community. Eclipse is not a commercial prospect. Eclipse has always been and should always be, about the community. The advertisement of "Free MMORPG Maker" brought many immature, underage, naive kids to the forum. Ten (sic) years on, including myself in that previous description, look at us now. Programmers, Pixel Artists, Graphic Artists, Musicians. I'm working on my own thing. Stephan, Elliot Brown, General Awesome; programmers from nothing. Baron; pixel artist from nothing. Kreator; Pixel artist *and* musician; from nothing. Jungletoe, one of the most notoriously annoying faggots to ever grace the forum got hammered and tossed around like a fruit juice in a rabble of disparate children. But he stuck it out, gave the middle finger and now he's celebrating a recently steam-greenlit project picked up by a publisher and sitting comfortably in his own development office, [http://playdwell.com/](http://playdwell.com/) .

Eclipse is about the community. Eclipse is a rallying pool for unrealised talent to try their best with a free, open source engine and to harness their possible capabilities into serious game development skills.

I want to see Eclipse back to that. I want to see Eclipse offering not only the (albeit roughly offered) nurturing side it always offered, but to also allow more advanced developers to harness their skills together and make a real go at what they're aiming to achieve.

If ever Eclipse strays from that again, I'm out of here.

Let's do this.

> Not to be "that guy". But I dont like the idea of a community founded on just being a friendly place and kind. Call me an asshole, but berrating people on how they put a point across or when there is personal banter (like whats just happened here) isn't a solution.
>
> Some people in topics could have genuine concerns, concerns that not everybody will agree with or be happy to hear regardless of intention.
>
> For instance… Im worried about posting this post in case i get banned or warned... thats not a community spirit you should foster, folks.
>
> Hell I cant even collaborate with you guys (which is what game development is about) because anything not eclipse is somehow "the enemy" and trounced out.

I want to see non-eclipse games flourish in their own section, as was introduced a few years ago. Like I previously said in this post, people come to eclipse, learn, grow and start their own thing - moving on. I want to keep you suckers chained down here, just for a few more years ;).

I'm also constantly pushing for a "Drama Section" that will allow people to piss and moan and fly off the handle all they like, to filter all the flaming, faggotry, bigotry, hate speeches and neonazism to one little shithole so that the rest of the forum can put it on hide and not have to roll their eyes in every thread, or to fear prosecution from overly-sensitive admins waiting for a flame to pop up, like waiting for a spout of lava from a boiling volcano covered in a sheet of obsidian.
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For the record, I did start from nothing here as well. It was 6 years ago, and I had no talents. Now I'm a professional front end developer. There's a whole life story here, but I can trace my beginnings to 6 years ago, at the blue/skulls smf eclipse that we all loved. Put it back to how it was.

Yukiro seems to think that the old ways aren't the right direction. He's too concerned with taking it in another "new" direction, and that's wrong, in my opinion. It was great as it was before Amish ruined it. We don't need another clueless owner who thinks he can turn it into something new.

It wasn't broken, don't try to spit-shine it into a pretty little turd-flower. Put it back how it was.
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> I'm also constantly pushing for a "Drama Section" that will allow people to piss and moan and fly off the handle all they like, to filter all the flaming, faggotry, bigotry, hate speeches and neonazism to one little shithole so that the rest of the forum can put it on hide and not have to roll their eyes in every thread, or to fear prosecution from overly-sensitive admins waiting for a flame to pop up, like waiting for a spout of lava from a boiling volcano covered in a sheet of obsidian.

I agree with this, threads get way too much heat for no more reason than it's the only place to give it, make a drama section and the heat goes there and the topics stay so much cleaner.

> For the record, I did start from nothing here as well. It was 6 years ago, and I had no talents. Now I'm a professional front end developer. There's a whole life story here, but I can trace my beginnings to 6 years ago, at the blue/skulls smf eclipse that we all loved. Put it back to how it was.
>
>  
>
> Yukiro seems to think that the old ways aren't the right direction. He's too concerned with taking it in another "new" direction, and that's wrong, in my opinion. It was great as it was before Amish ruined it. We don't need another clueless owner who thinks he can turn it into something new.
>
>  
>
> It wasn't broken, don't try to spit-shine it into a pretty little turd-flower. Put it back how it was.

Chief, let's give him a chance and see where he takes it, it may not have been broken but he may be able to actually make it better, let's see what he does with the chance :)
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> For the record, I did start from nothing here as well. It was 6 years ago, and I had no talents. Now I'm a professional front end developer. There's a whole life story here, but I can trace my beginnings to 6 years ago, at the blue/skulls smf eclipse that we all loved. Put it back to how it was.
>
>  
>
> Yukiro seems to think that the old ways aren't the right direction. He's too concerned with taking it in another "new" direction, and that's wrong, in my opinion. It was great as it was before Amish ruined it. We don't need another clueless owner who thinks he can turn it into something new.
>
>  
>
> It wasn't broken, don't try to spit-shine it into a pretty little turd-flower. Put it back how it was.

I agree to an extent. Eclipse had its issues; such as lack of engine support, all the moderators/admins were expected to pick and choose when and where they should put some work in. Flaming was a constant issue, and like I said a moment ago, they stamped down way too hard on everybody everywhere on the forum, because of the few.

Also, anybody remember that April Fools that went too far, and SOMEBODY led a DOS attack?
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Speculations lead to nothing, actions speak louder than anything. You can talk about an opinion all day and go no where without solid grounds, you don't know me well enough to put faith into me and I never asked you to as I didn't buy the site specifically for you. Realistically speaking you "believed in me" until I didn't want to take the site in just your direction, which is selfish to me. I have my own ideas for restoring eclipse but also keep in mind the old days included a lot of trolling and running away members, we're making sure that doesn't happen. My staff support me and so do many other members, I have all the support I need. If you want to stick around and find out the result that's fine, but do not create random rants and complaints in a topic without giving me a chance, you just look like assholes.

P.S I probably have more experience managing than a lot of people on this site, I've lead small platoons , I've been the leading seamen at my shop and prior to the military I was a manager at a restaurant I might not have as much experience but I've been around here as long as you and I know what I'm doing. Come at me with facts or nothing at all, because you don't know anything about me. As for spike, how many times have I personally unbanned you just because you asked, your post personally pisses me off because you act like the staff has a vendetta against you. We are not Amish's team, and we wouldn't waste time on you when we have things to do for eclipse, some people need to get over their ego and grow up.
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I like that in a post where I talk about being afraid to state my opinion im justified in that completely.

And for the record, you unbanned me once on request after i requested you to ban me in the first place and only because we had a public argument about your problem with my attitude.

Im out, im dealing with too much crap to get stressed over this. I didnt come back after 10 months to be ridiculed for asking the hard questions. Later guys.
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I'm gonna have to agree with Spike here too. I hope I'm wrong about them but half the staff are the same people who during Amish's time would swing the banhammer around left, right and centre for silly, insignificant things. You genuinely need to refocus with your staff, you've got double the staff and half of the community. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally.
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> I'm gonna have to agree with Spike here too. I hope I'm wrong about them but half the staff are the same people who during Amish's time would swing the banhammer around left, right and centre for silly, insignificant things. You genuinely need to refocus with your staff, you've got double the staff and half of the community. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally.

Why I turned the job down. I'm a fan of people being amicable, sharing alike, and lending a helping hand, but at the end of the day its a hobby and I believe that should be the message being sent here.
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Honestly, when Eclipse died down with the ownership of Amish, that's where the dictatorship of power came. The rules were strict and the staff were just power abusive. (Not trying to start anything, just a fact.) I can for one say I was banned for messing around with JC about him ~~adding an arcade to the site~~. (For abusing admin powers and unbanning recently banned members.) I was an Admin, joking around with another Admin but yet still getting banned. Shoulda gotten a verbal warning tbh. That's not how a community should be run, but again that was months ago.

Anyways, the old Eclipse rules and guidelines (before Amish) were alright. The community was active, the staff weren't as much abusive as the ones were when Amish took over, and yes. The staff changed. Staff members didn't get warnings when they did something wrong, like when they warned/banned another member just because they could. And there was a lot of that.

DTK, what I'm trying to say is, get your new staff together and get new guidelines together. Get Eclipse's * together. Don't let it die, but let it rise back to what it once was and even do better.

_**TL;DR:**_ Eclipse needs a new set of rules and guidelines with DTK being the new owner. Enough with trying to stick with the old stuff and DTK needs to get his own * together. And don't ban me for agreeing with others and stating my opinion pl0x.
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> Im out, im dealing with too much crap to get stressed over this. I didnt come back after 10 months to be ridiculed for asking the hard questions. Later guys.

Hmm. I couldn't imagine letting a website stress me out. I know this community means alot to the members here, including me, but it seems that some members take this way to serious and end up just getting their feelings hurt. This isn't directed towards Spike alone by any means. I mean hell, if I see a post I don't like or don't agree with I simply move on. No point in letting something this insignificant ruin my day.
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> Hmm. I couldn't imagine letting a website stress me out. I know this community means alot to the members here, including me, but it seems that some members take this way to serious and end up just getting their feelings hurt. This isn't directed towards Spike alone by any means. I mean hell, if I see a post I don't like or don't agree with I simply move on. No point in letting something this insignificant ruin my day.

Peaceful thoughts….. ommm
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I think there's definitely a lot of valid points to be said for all arguments in this thread.

So I'll simply say a few things on my mind.

Eclipse needs to be viewed in two ways, the Engine, and the Community. In my opinion, the community should be renamed something else, because the Community, in reality, doesn't use the Eclipse engine much these days, the community is an indie developer forum.

**The Engine:**

The current Eclipse Origins engine is built on dated technology. This is why Dr. Yukiro has selected a few members to draft and create a new engine with current technology to bring Eclipse into this decade. The old engine, Eclipse Origins 4, has become my love child project for the time being. I will be updating Eclipse Origins 4.3 and onwards until the team has released the new engine, and then support for Eclipse Origins will no longer be available. We will continue to allow people custom versions on the forum. Eclipse Origins 4.3 and maybe 4.4 will remain closed source for a while, but 4.5 (milestone) will once again become Open-Sourced and available to everyone.

**The Community:**

For years, the community was based upon the engine, everyone was using some variant of Eclipse or something similar to create their games. So chatter was focused a lot game design, concepts, etc. We've evolved and many of the community members have grown up, gone to college and are now working professionals. The existing community has changed from a bunch of kids wanting to make the next big MMO, to a bunch of teens or adults, who now understand game development, are venturing out onto other platforms for development. This is OK, Change is OK.  We shouldn't be stifling the competition and banning people who are creating similar projects but instead encourage them, offer them support, link to their engine and hopefully they will link back to ours. It's the only way to succeed as indies!  Everyone also needs to put ego's aside. Even though you are all older now and realize the limitations of Visual Basic etc, we still get kids on the forums who DO want to make the next big MMO and think that Eclipse Origins is going to do that for them. Let them have that pipe dream. It's what got YOU and kept YOU here. Don't rain on someone else's parade by telling them what they can't do, because you now know better! You started at this exact same location. Let them use Eclipse Origins, help them with their projects. Eventually they will become pillars of the community as well and realize there are other alternatives out there.

/EndRant
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