Question about my project

[Tic Tac 2]

May i use my own project made with eclipse to make money?
Are there any copyright issues or such if i use your engine for my benefits?

(I'm not gonna sell the engine)
I'm thinking about adding a "cash-shop" into the game.
IS THIS FINE?
Stick to the topic please :)

[Joyce]

the lisence should be included, give it a read. note that the graphics from RPG maker are under copyright though. And there's hardly been any games worth any money.. So make your game, then assess if its viable to add a cash store. you can't expect to make a game and earn money straight away.

[Tic Tac 2]

All of my graphics are of my own.
So its okay as long as i put credits like
"Base engine: Eclipse Origins
Touchofdeathforums.com" ??

EDIT: Since i've made a public in-dev on another forum i've got a few players (~20 so far) that enjoy it.

[Joyce]

Because they likely haven't been thrown to death with the same basic game. Honestly though, charging money for an Eclipse game, while legal is rarely a good idea. I think Silverdale and Crystalshire are the only two that have come, or will ever come close to being worth it, imo.

[Tic Tac 2]

#Sticking to the thread

So it's 100% legal and i have permission?

(I'm not saying i'll charge lots of money)
But i might add fashion items like wigs and stuff that cost like 0.5$

[Joyce]

So long as you leave the original credits provided intact, and give credit where credit is due on tutorials yes. It's illegal to sell portions of the source in any way or shape, however.

And technically I was sticking to the thread, because it being possible doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[Tic Tac 2]

"portions of the source"

would that include small cash shop items?
Or do you mean selling the actual VB project and/or source code from it?

[Joyce]

The actual VB code, because it's open source and all. I just wrote it there for clarification. :]

[Tic Tac 2]

Ah! Thanks joyce, i worried about that doing this would be illegal but i guess its not :)
First i'll focus on the actual game though.

[Jacquelinett]

WHat about the code that i wrote? If i am the author of a code that i wrote shouldnt i be able to sell it?

[Joyce]

You're not allowed to sell the code directly, because it contains parts of the original engine in most cases, but you could be paid to edit it into their engine. ;]

[Jacquelinett]

so basically what you are saying is… No eclipse game going to be as big as Ragnarok Online... Cuz... idk... It feel like i have less control over the game even tho im working my best...

[Joyce]

I doubt any game will become that big on these boards, why? Because of sheer lack of proper planning and talent. Eclipse CAN do amazing things, but you'll need to re-write most of the base engine, and that's just NOT worth the time and effort.

Harsh as that sounds, Game Development is not a perfect world where a kid's dreams come true, you can try and gain experience, and do the best you can to your ability. But the chances of getting ANYWHERE NEAR such large scale MMOs with custom engines and budgets with YEARS of development is just.. near impossible, and something you shouldn't aim for. It'll lead to dissapointment.

If you mean being able to sell the game client, you could.. But I doubt there'd be many people willing to buy.

[Jacquelinett]

@Joyce:

> I doubt any game will become that big on these boards, why? Because of sheer lack of proper planning and talent. Eclipse CAN do amazing things, but you'll need to re-write most of the base engine, and that's just NOT worth the time and effort.
>
> If you mean being able to sell the game client, you could.. But I doubt there'd be many people willing to buy.

Eh so you are telling me my dream of becoming a programmer, make a huge game with Eclipse as a base and make a game that is as good as FF14 is unachievable???

and as for the rewrite most, if i rewrite some, what happen…?

[Joyce]

Look at it this way.. Eclipse is like a bunch of Lego blocks, they're fun for kids and to play with for quick prototyping. But to get into the big works (building a real house, in the case of legos) you'll need a LOT more effort, work, planning and money to get it done.

You can use Eclipse as a LEARNING device, and have fun while doing so. But I wouldn't recommend trying to remake a popular MMO with it. You're better off learning C++ or something along those lines, and helping people with projects, learn and slowly gather friends willing to help. And even THEN it'll take you years to get anywhere.

TL;DR Eclipse is all fun and games to learn from as a start, but for serious development you're better off learning other things.

[Jacquelinett]

@Joyce:

> Look at it this way.. Eclipse is like a bunch of Lego blocks, they're fun for kids and to play with for quick prototyping. But to get into the big works (building a real house, in the case of legos) you'll need a LOT more effort, work, planning and money to get it done.
>
> You can use Eclipse as a LEARNING device, and have fun while doing so. But I wouldn't recommend trying to remake a popular MMO with it. You're better off learning C++ or something along those lines, and helping people with projects, learn and slowly gather friends willing to help. And even THEN it'll take you years to get anywhere.
>
> TL;DR Eclipse is all fun and games to learn from as a start, but for serious development you're better off learning other things.

so… what you are saying is.. STOP USING ECLIPSE!!! GET ON C++ CLASS AND START WORKING AGAIN??

Eh... if that the case does that mean i have to tell my friend: "yo buddies, stop learning vb6 and switch to C++, im sorry bro the engine we are working on is not going anywhere"?

[Joyce]

As I said, Eclipse is nice for a first MMO, to get an idea of basic networking and how to keep up regular content updates. But it is NEVER going to get anywhere near the quality of Ragnarok unless completely re-written from scratch. It's good to learn the basic logic behind a game, behind an MMO and behind teamwork.

But after you've gotten to that point, there's no use for it anymore. VB6 is a mostly deprecated language that's hardly ever used anymore. DX7 is worthless nowadays, and half of the methods used in Eclipse can be done more efficiently or handled easier in other languages.

To be fair, as a kid you can have dreams. But aiming to make the next greatest MMO will NEVER work. Not in a million years, you can't expect to run in and save the day. You need years of experience, practice and ideas to get it done.

[Jacquelinett]

@Joyce:

> DX7 is worthless nowadays, and half of the methods used in Eclipse can be done more efficiently or handled easier in other languages.

dX7? Im using CS:DE btw, but yeah i get the point xD

So basically I have to  learn a new language? Should i start with java? CUz my friends know how to program with java, but I dont.

@Joyce:

> To be fair, as a kid you can have dreams. But aiming to make the next greatest MMO will NEVER work. Not in a million years, you can't expect to run in and save the day. You need years of experience, practice and ideas to get it done.

I am an: Asian.
Level of IQ: Asian.
My friends are: Asian

Yes we will make a great game. Just wait

[Joyce]

CS:DE is no different, it's the same core engine with a minor difference. And being Asian means jackshit. I'm not trying to ruin creativity here, I'm bringing you back down to earth. Your game will never be as bloody successful or anywhere near as good as Ragnarok. Why? You don't have the funds, experience, engine nor people to get it off the ground.

Stick to a plan that's realistic, make something worth playing that's different from the general Eclipse grindfest. But stop fooling yourself into thinking you can make the best MMO ever, it is not going to happen. Hell, just getting over 200 players on your server will be tricky in theory, because most people seem to have issues with just 30-50, no matter how grand their games and ideas are.

Look at Crystalshire, Robin's got years of experience, people he works with on it have YEARS of experience. But is it anywhere near Ragnarok in terms of quality? As much as I adore the work he's done on it, I'm going to have to say no. And if he can't do it, you cannot for sure no matter what you try to do. There's just a limit you'll need to accept, look at and work with. You'll burn your wings if you try flying too high, and simply crash back down into the earth.

[Rob Janes]

@Yumi:

> Eh so you are telling me my dream of becoming a programmer, make a huge game with Eclipse as a base and make a game that is as good as FF14 is unachievable???
>
> and as for the rewrite most, if i rewrite some, what happen…?

Eclipse is a great place to get an understanding of how things fit together, but you can't compare an Eclipse project to say FF14, it'd be more comparable to something like Tibia and that itself is a little stretch.  Eclipse can make some great games if you have the ideas and abilities to see it to fruition, but don't expect to get rich or even moderately wealthy from it, if it does turn out to be good enough, it may make you enough to buy a new computer and keep spirits high, but in today's market it's just not up to par with what people are looking for.

Don't get me wrong, VB6 is still widely used, not so much in the game development industry though, for that most center around C or some variant. As well as Java and web technologies.

TL:DR don't aim for a top selling MMO with Eclipse, it may turn out to not make any money but don't be discouraged, practice makes perfect.  Use it to learn methodology and syntax, then pick away at it with ideas, and when you graduate high school you'll have a good understanding of how programming "works" and you can decide if it's a career path for you.

[Ruins of Hell]

I am not a lawyer.

Although, it should be noted that you can sell copies in source code form if you get explicit consent from Marsh.

From [Eclipse Licensing](http://www.touchofdeathforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,29732.0.html), which is also included with every copy of Origins:

> iv) states that source code for the Program is available from such Contributor, and informs licensees how to obtain it in a reasonable manner on or through a medium customarily used for software exchange.
>
> When the Program is made available in source code form:
>
> a) it must be made available under this Agreement; and
>
> b) a copy of this Agreement must be included with each copy of the Program.
>
> c) you must have express consent from Touch of Death Productions.

So basically, if you want to redistribute Eclipse with changes, you need permission, you need to license the source code copy under the agreement (that is, what we let you do, you must let whoever you give it to do) and you need to include the agreement so they know what rights they have and don't have.